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Posted by Eric Clark on September 29, 2003 15:53:06 UTC

Apparently, there is some other problem with getting a current page on this forum. Cookies ? Anyway, the number of Bible_Believers grows.

Richard,

Sorry, the breavity(B) of this post(P) approached absolute zero as I wrote(W) thru time(T).

B...0 P[ (W*Tx)dx) ]

I know. I know. But I thought it might make you laugh. I'm serious, but I'm trying hard to be seriously funny. At least I'm workin' on it.

I would gladly follow the bleeding off of this post into another Forum (such as G&S) if you desire.
Since you were the one to initiate this post, I’ll leave that choice to you.

We all (except the most timid) make educated presumptions as it tends to speed the learning process and can also reduce the time needed for getting to the meaningful specifics. I beg you not hold my presumptions against me, as I shall not yours. I understand that my presumption about annoyance was incorrect which was drawn from our statement that every now and then a poster like myself comes along and purports to take the bible literally. I hope from my previous reply that you understand that I take the Bible as truth when understood in context. Do I literally take a symbolic parable as literal ? Yes, I literally take it as symbolic. The Bible provides the context.

You indicated that you take the parts of the Bible that Jesus said literally. Literal or not, do you take those parts of the Bible to be truth ? Do you take “Ye must be born again.” from John 3:7 to be truth ? This appears to be the bottom line difference between your religion and a relationship with Jesus (Christianity). It only takes one to have a religion, but it takes two to have a relationship.

Based on your evolutionary confidence, your invented religion clearly does not “subsume” Christianity, but is rather obverse to it, as the sixth day does not consist of evolving a man, but rather “God created man” (from Genesis 1:27).
Can evolution occur (evolve nostrils) without life ?
“And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7)
Did you say that we both hold to “literal” interpretation ?
Was that a presumption or a ploy ? “literal” does not mean “metaphoric”. Right ?
Is there need to make any part of Genesis metaphorical when no error is proven ?
Doesn’t science hold to a theory until it has a proven error ?
I do hold to the literal creation account as found in Genesis; however,
I also hold to the deep things of God, chronologically between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. BTW - this would be what occurred after the supposed Big Bang and before light came into the world that we know.

Regarding the Jewish rabbis, in identifying the specifics, you seem to have left off from the first presumption about believing the “Bible” literally by including “other writings”. I do not hold to the Torah or Talmud as the inspired word of God. Therefore my belief or non-belief in their content is not relevant to the initial point of believing the “Bible” literally. My view of “Christianity” is that Christians believe the Bible is the only inspired and infallible word of God. To paint Christianity with a broad brush so as to include other writings would not be historically accurate, though there are longstanding sects (Roman Catholic, etc.) and more recent heretical groups that lay claim to Christianity. In truth, Christianity is about a relationship, not a religion, though these and many others will distort the message. I am not saying that there are NO Christians to be found in Roman Catholicism or other religions that adhere to non-Biblical practices because weak (in the faith) Christians can be lead astray, but I am saying that these do not make up the heart of Christianity in their beliefs. The Pentateuch is made up of Genesis, Exodus Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy and includes the law given through Moses and are included in the Bible. When you state your view that Jesus said that only Jews that keep the whole law could go to heaven, were you relying upon the complete Bible or are you referencing a subset of the Bible and/or including other writings ?

With the Pentateuch as the basis for the “law” and a presumption that the 66 books make up “the Bible”, in John 7:19, Jesus indicated that none of the Jews kept the law and James 2:10 states, “For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.” You stated that it is “now” impossible to keep all of the law. In many places in the Bible, where the context has changed from the Jews to include everyone, it is clear that no one, Jew or Gentile, can keep the whole law, then or now. With respect, even with narrowing the law down to the “Ten Commandments”, as found in some courtrooms across America still, it is impossible for ANYONE to keep all the law, even “now”. I am guilty and so thankful that He loved us so much that He came to deliver us from the law, through a disannulling of the law. This change was made by His death on the cross for you and me. Yes, Jesus made a way for ALL to go to heaven, even ALL those who have sinned. This plan is rooted throughout the Bible – Genesis to Malachi create this pictured event, though the Jewish rabbis had eyes, they could not see.

BTW - I would suppose God could easily say that He is having more fun than us.
Isn’t having “fun” all in the eye of the beholder and isn’t His eye much greater ?
Anytime I am allowed to speak the name of Jesus Christ my Lord, I’m having fun.
I have a relationship with Jesus. THAT is what makes me happy.

Best wishes to you. May you seek the truth and may you find what you seek.
- Eric %^)

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