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RE:>> * It is well established by John the Baptist that to be born in the spirit is akin to being baptized in the spirit. And I recall Paul talking of the baptism of death and rebirth.
So if we assume then that being born in the spirit is different words for being baptized with the spirit, then here Jesus is saying that both are necessary. *
You lost me. Please identify your “both” from this.
You do realize that the baptism of the Holy Spirit, rebirth, born again, etc. all refer to the same thing -- the moment of salvation -- the entering into a personal relationship with the Saviour.
RE:>> * But I of course prefer your interpretation that man is born both of water and of spirit, as you did not object to my characterization of Jesus first being made flesh (assuming that is what being born of the water means) and later his spirit descended into the fetus. ) *
Pardon my missed objection. I OBJECT.
Want more about the objection ? I think I covered this before, but you either don’t understand what I said or I didn’t relate it well enough.
FYI – there is no such thing as a “fetus” in Christianity.
( Except when “fetus” had its original meaning of an “unborn child”. )
RE:>> * If you believe that characterization, then be careful, for it means that the body and spirit of a person are separate-- Which means that bodies need not be resurrected for the spirit to live on, and perhaps enter another body. *
Though I do NOT believe that characterization, I DO believe that the body and spirit are separate -- though God is the only One that can divide and join.
You are correct, the body need not be resurrected for the spirit to live on (Ecclesiastes 12:7) but the “another body” will be the resurrected body at That day.
I pray we have a meeting of the minds before then.
RE:>> * The concept of resurrection is ancient science. You may claim that God can do anything, including reassemble the particles of one's body that may have migrated quite far via microbes and erosion and the like. God would be breaking his own law of entropy to do this, and to do it for all peopls at once. What if the same particles were used in different bodies over thousands of years- a very likely case. Would God then produce duplicates for all bodies. It would be easier just to remake all those bodies. *
“entropy”, like the law of Moses, will be done away with. It exists now because of the one that will soon be cast out of heaven and into the lake of fire. In the new heaven and new earth, the reverse law will again thrive.
Yes, “particles” of one person’s dead body can wind up in the living body of another.
This happens currently today !
You may not have understood that the resurrected body will be a new creation.
Love, Eric |
