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Wishful Thinking

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Posted by Mario Dovalina on July 4, 2001 03:10:37 UTC

"Also, it still makes very good sense for the word "GOD" to have been the "Big Bang".

You could apply that kind of logic to any discovery by science. You could call the conglomeration of amino acids in the primordial soup to form life God making life. You could call the formation of the earth from collecting stellar dust particles God creating the earth. You could theoretically take any fact and vaguely apply it to God despite the fact that God is not required, that the universe does just fine without him.

"According to the bible, GOD made everything right? According to scientists, the "big Bang" made everything right?"

Unless the universe existed forever, something HAD to "make everything." Making paralellisms between faith and reason does not prove God's existence. That would be pseudoscience.

"Even scientist claim that energy cannot be destroyed only changes form, so this also proves life after death."

I've heard that argument before, and it holds about as much water as a sieve. If you light a match, the energy that was once in that match will never recolect to form a match again. The potential energy in the head would be flying out into space at the speed of light, and could never be recollected again. Where is the life after death for a match? When we die, and our brains decompose, the energy that once was in them will never regroup. The energy still exists, sure, in the bellies of maggots and slugs. Never again will it resemble anything like a human brain.

Again: the universe runs itself. Unless God created the Cosmos and then decided to sit on his hands for the rest of eternity, I see no room for him.

Follow Ups:

Listen to yourself and ask if you make any sense Mario. - motumos - July 4, 2001 - 06:40 UTC
- a typoo from previous post. - motumos - July 4, 2001 - 06:50 UTC
- I think I do. - stormcrow - July 4, 2001 - 13:50 UTC
  - I made a typo, too - stormcrow - July 4, 2001 - 13:53 UTC
  - Read the bible more carefully - highvoltage - July 4, 2001 - 16:47 UTC
    - Evolution - stormcrow - July 4, 2001 - 17:45 UTC
      - There is not evidence and has never been evidence of Darwins.... - motumos - July 4, 2001 - 17:50 UTC
        
        I can name and show you evidence of colors in between other colo - motumos - July 4, 2001 - 18:18 UTC
        
        The fossile record is one thing - highvoltage - July 5, 2001 - 06:17 UTC
        
        I have studied both Anthropology, and biology, and non exist. - motumos - July 5, 2001 - 13:53 UTC
        
        Archeaopteryx and Archaeornyx - iamnotagenius - July 6, 2001 - 18:40 UTC
        
        It's common sense - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 13:53 UTC
        
        Listen to yourslef man..??!!?? - motumos - July 5, 2001 - 15:42 UTC
        
        If you were indeed studying biology, you knew - alexander - July 5, 2001 - 17:24 UTC
        
        A wolf is the same species as a dog. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 01:52 UTC
        
        No, I did NOT study biology in depth. - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 17:36 UTC
        
        But the same question is applied, Atheists don't prove a thing.. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 23:00 UTC
        
        Biology Help - iamnotagenius - July 6, 2001 - 17:48 UTC
        
        Also, you seem to be describing adaptation, not evolution. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 01:56 UTC
        
        Hair and nails are one thing, appendix and coccyx are another - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 02:11 UTC
        
        I think you're a little misguided - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 18:32 UTC
        
        Humans are the only species with mitochondrial DNA and - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 01:37 UTC
        
        I'll clarify a little - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 01:56 UTC
        
        But you see, It hasn't ever been proven. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 05:56 UTC
        
        Also, what followed a different path? - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 05:59 UTC
        
        Boy, is this dark ages discussion or what? - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 19:03 UTC
        
        Problem with your analogy - isaiaha41 - July 7, 2001 - 13:32 UTC
        
        I will admit that evolution seems to have driving force - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 13:49 UTC
        
        Darwins Theory of evolution is also jumping to conclusions storm - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 13:21 UTC
        
        Two sides to that coin - isaiaha41 - July 8, 2001 - 13:52 UTC
        
        I agree - stormcrow - July 8, 2001 - 23:26 UTC
        
        No god(s), Santa(s), etc. beings are needed. - alexander - July 9, 2001 - 19:44 UTC
        
        It's just a suspicion - stormcrow - July 9, 2001 - 19:54 UTC
        
        Mario, my post is not for you. - alexander - July 9, 2001 - 20:19 UTC
        
        Okay (nt) - stormcrow - July 9, 2001 - 20:36 UTC
        
        Yeah, God did it. - iamnotagenius - July 6, 2001 - 18:59 UTC
        
        Yasir, please use word "math" instead of "god" . - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 19:29 UTC
        
        I really love it - iamnotagenius - July 6, 2001 - 19:42 UTC
        
        But that doesn't prove evolution, only adaptation.... AGAIN!! - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 23:08 UTC
        
        What's the difference between adaptation and evolution? - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 00:07 UTC
        
        Read my post again - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 13:50 UTC
        
        Thats not what you said, and you know it. - motumos - July 5, 2001 - 15:26 UTC
        
        Evolution is false? What century are you from? - alexander - July 5, 2001 - 17:47 UTC
        
        Not species changing - highvoltage - July 5, 2001 - 18:09 UTC
        
        Yeah, it is - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 18:22 UTC
        
        Species (DNA) change constantly. - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 00:19 UTC
        
        you describe adaptation once again, confusing with evolution.WOW - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 02:11 UTC
        
        As I understand it, evolution is a result of adaptation - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 02:30 UTC
        
        Adaptaion is different then Evolution. Darwin made it confusing. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 04:07 UTC
        
        Adaptation LEADS to evolution - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 04:21 UTC
        
        No it doesn't, - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 05:10 UTC
        
        Species?? - doctordick - July 6, 2001 - 14:17 UTC
        
        The conclusion is clear: Darvin is right. - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 21:16 UTC
        
        Current DNA changes have not proven Darwin right, more like Wron - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 23:13 UTC
        
        So, where do all species come from then, Motumos? - alexander - July 9, 2001 - 19:58 UTC
        
        Thank you for that - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 01:57 UTC
        
        Alexander wrong again. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 02:02 UTC
        
        Are you blind to facts or just plain ignorant? - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 20:54 UTC
        
        Clarification - harvey1 - July 6, 2001 - 22:55 UTC
        
        You need to study more. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 23:24 UTC
        
        oh, and about humans history... - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 23:31 UTC
        
        That was a desperate response - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 02:28 UTC
        
        not very wrong from the truth. - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 04:13 UTC
        
        I don't know about that - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 13:30 UTC
        
        Elements are exposed to many elements and radiation. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 13:42 UTC
        
        Bible is incorrect again. - alexander - July 9, 2001 - 21:29 UTC
        
        Apparently you haven't read the bible carefully! - highvoltage - July 10, 2001 - 16:25 UTC
        
        What about the Orthodox Jews - yanniru - July 10, 2001 - 17:00 UTC
        
        Please explain - highvoltage - July 11, 2001 - 04:44 UTC
        
        From the Torah - yanniru - July 11, 2001 - 12:09 UTC
        
        Sources? - highvoltage - July 12, 2001 - 04:49 UTC
        
        You have to speak with an Orthadox Jew - yanniru - July 12, 2001 - 21:37 UTC
        
        carbon-dating not accurate more than several thous yrs back - isaiaha41 - July 8, 2001 - 19:06 UTC
        
        How can carbon sample be contaminated? - alexander - July 10, 2001 - 17:49 UTC
        
        Soot - doctordick - July 12, 2001 - 23:32 UTC
        
        Dammit, adaptation LEADS to evolution - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 02:24 UTC
        
        Here's a contradiction you athiets even try to use as proof of E - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 04:04 UTC
        
        How do you figure? - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 13:26 UTC
        
        Not exactly. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 13:54 UTC
        
        What? - harvey1 - July 9, 2001 - 18:11 UTC
        
        This is not a theist/atheist controversy - harvey1 - July 9, 2001 - 18:07 UTC
  - Also, - motumos - July 4, 2001 - 18:08 UTC
    - Everything's precise - highvoltage - July 5, 2001 - 06:22 UTC
    - I've heard that before - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 13:48 UTC
      - I am not a jew, because I believe JesusChrist is the Messiah. - motumos - July 5, 2001 - 15:17 UTC
        
        Let's examine the foundation of your beliefs - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 18:41 UTC
        
        And by the way, I was raised Catholic - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 18:46 UTC
        
        Stormcrow, you need SERIOUS help. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 05:32 UTC
        
        Thanks - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 14:48 UTC
        
        Oh, and by the way... - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 02:15 UTC
    - Here Motious is wrong again (about fine tuning) - alexander - July 5, 2001 - 18:28 UTC
      - Maybe you need to do some research Alexander. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 02:09 UTC
        
        The Power of Positive Thinking - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 02:26 UTC
        
        So positive thinking is what? - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 05:15 UTC
        
        Positive thinking and miracles are different - highvoltage - July 6, 2001 - 05:50 UTC
        
        And what seperates miracle from coincicence? - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 14:29 UTC
        
        It is all chemistry (=math) - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 21:23 UTC
        
        Math doesn't have all the answers. - motumos - July 7, 2001 - 00:17 UTC
        
        Uh huh - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 02:04 UTC
        
        Give me John Powell's life story - highvoltage - July 7, 2001 - 03:39 UTC
        
        You'd have to ask him - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 13:32 UTC
        
        Then don't use his story as evidence - highvoltage - July 7, 2001 - 19:41 UTC
        
        Fine, but don't suggest that good men lead charmed lives - stormcrow - July 8, 2001 - 02:09 UTC
        
        They don't - highvoltage - July 8, 2001 - 05:29 UTC
        
        Thus contrary to Motuos, prayer holds no power. - alexander - July 9, 2001 - 22:06 UTC
        
        Oops meant his brother - highvoltage - July 8, 2001 - 01:46 UTC
        
        Winning the lottery is against the bible. - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 04:16 UTC
        
        Also, You need a relation ship with GOD, not just gimme, gimme.. - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 04:24 UTC
        
        Yeah, but the thing is... - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 14:07 UTC
        
        I know GOD exist's too. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 14:16 UTC
        
        Usually uneducated about natural laws become believers. - alexander - July 10, 2001 - 18:14 UTC
        
        Not true - highvoltage - July 11, 2001 - 04:49 UTC
        
        What is your education in physics - yanniru - July 11, 2001 - 12:10 UTC
        
        Statistics - stormcrow - July 11, 2001 - 14:06 UTC
        
        Not educated in general, but educated about FUNDAMENTALS. - alexander - July 11, 2001 - 16:50 UTC
        
        Einstein = Uneducated? - jazzsax - April 24, 2002 - 02:21 UTC
        
        Pshycologist Too - terry - November 15, 2001 - 11:37 UTC
        
        I think you're decieving yourself a little - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 14:00 UTC
        
        You seem to be very closed minded and have your believes set. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 14:20 UTC
        
        You remind me of the soldiers who mocked jesus. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 14:25 UTC
        
        People use the choice which harms others. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 14:38 UTC
        
        Think about what you're saying - highvoltage - July 8, 2001 - 17:49 UTC
        
        What century are you believers from? - alexander - July 10, 2001 - 18:56 UTC
        
        Quick question - highvoltage - July 11, 2001 - 04:47 UTC
        
        I've read some - stormcrow - July 11, 2001 - 14:15 UTC
        
        Quick answer to Mike. - alexander - July 11, 2001 - 17:29 UTC
        
        I think, there were TWO human creation stories - stormcrow - July 12, 2001 - 03:20 UTC
        
        I don't mock, I question. - stormcrow - July 9, 2001 - 02:12 UTC
        
        The whole point is my beliefs are NOT set - stormcrow - July 9, 2001 - 19:14 UTC
        
        You don't find the human brain miraculous? - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 00:30 UTC
        
        A complex system does not require divine intervention - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 02:43 UTC
        
        Not true. - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 04:31 UTC
        
        Nah - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 14:13 UTC
        
        There has been evidence against your claim stormcrow. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 14:04 UTC
        
        About brain mass. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 14:07 UTC
Also, How can you say GOD isn't needed? How could you know that? - motumos - July 4, 2001 - 06:48 UTC
- I don't think sciece will ever prove God - highvoltage - July 4, 2001 - 16:49 UTC
  - Because we need faith, God will not let himself be found? - stormcrow - July 4, 2001 - 17:13 UTC
    - I also think GOD wants people to believe in him out of their own - motumos - July 4, 2001 - 18:08 UTC
      - Far from bible teachings. - highvoltage - July 5, 2001 - 06:30 UTC
        
        This question is for both of you guys - stormcrow - July 5, 2001 - 14:00 UTC
        
        I believe in both the old, and the New testaments, not science. - motumos - July 5, 2001 - 14:55 UTC
        
        I know GOD is obvious to those that look for him. - motumos - July 5, 2001 - 14:07 UTC
        
        Motumos, tell us: where do natural laws come from? - alexander - July 5, 2001 - 17:55 UTC
        
        You seem to be so confident that "something" suddenly became "so - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 02:38 UTC
        
        I'm not saying they're wrong, but they don't prove Atheism. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 02:45 UTC
        
        Laws And God - iamnotagenius - July 6, 2001 - 19:28 UTC
        
        Post for Motumos. - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 21:48 UTC
        
        Once again same link for Motumos (this time may click). - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 22:27 UTC
        
        I don't seem to understand your views about why GOD wouldn't exi - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 23:56 UTC
        
        "Laws"of physics are just human descriptions - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 00:21 UTC
        
        Only one Law giver - x-x-ray - July 8, 2001 - 04:33 UTC
        
        Incorrect. No God is needed to create natural laws. - alexander - July 10, 2001 - 20:40 UTC
        
        God does not make/change any law-they come from math (symmetries - alexander - July 10, 2001 - 21:32 UTC
        
        Hmm. - terry - November 15, 2001 - 11:20 UTC

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