Alex,

I think there's a confusion between us. A principle is an axiom that we think is either self-evident or has sufficient reason to believe based on our experience with nature. A theory is a mental construct by which we use to interpret those experiences. For example, Occam's razor is a principle and not a theory. The principle is that we should weigh simplicity along with the ability to explain. It is not a theory.

***I disagree. Common origin of seemingly different phenomena (say, electricity, magnetizm and light all mathematically originate from electric charge)is the reason we call them (electricity, magnetizm, light, radiowaves, gamma rays, etc) unified.***

The principle of unification is not equivalent to the theory of electromagneticism, theory of quantum mechanics, etc. The theory is based on mathematical formulations, however the theories of science are scientific theories and not mathematical theorems.

The principle of unification was used to construct those theories. Another principle used in science (specifically physics and chemistry) is a principle of mathematization whereby theories should be phrased within mathematical language. These two principles were used to develop the scientific theory of electromagneticism and quantum mechanics, etc. Similarly, the principle of unification is used in mathematics to develop more general descriptions of mathematical constructs. For example, group theory was used in the 19th century to unite various mathematical approaches. Similarly, group theory began to be used in the early 60's to unite various theories in physics.

The principle of unification is not a mathematical theorem. The principle is an axiom on how to approach a problem. Once a problem is solved with a more general and unified solution, we can say the principle paid off, it was intuitively correct. The principle may not always work. For example, we might want to unify the 19 or so constants of the standard model into an underlying symmetry, but this kind of unity may not be possible. They may simply be randomly selected values of nature (or hand picked selections by God). If the principle of unification were a mathematical theorem, then we should know when and where it is applicable. However, we cannot know that until after the fact (when the theory is already developed).

Warm regards, Harv

• Why God? - ymateen - January 19, 2002 - 15:09 UTC
  • error: .. in all discussions..... (nt) - ymateen - January 19, 2002 - 15:11 UTC
    • God matters - yanniru - January 19, 2002 - 16:51 UTC
  • Why God? Why not? - alexander - January 19, 2002 - 18:26 UTC
  • Because I say so (smile) - harvey1 - January 19, 2002 - 20:18 UTC
• "Why" is an ultimately self-serving concept. - luis_hamburgh - January 19, 2002 - 17:05 UTC
  • But, it is a useful one - harvey1 - January 19, 2002 - 20:35 UTC
    • Let's name a principle - luis_hamburgh - January 20, 2002 - 15:22 UTC
      • Thanks for that reference - harvey1 - January 20, 2002 - 19:55 UTC
        • Correction - harvey1 - January 20, 2002 - 19:56 UTC
          • Origin of universal order. - alexander - January 20, 2002 - 20:54 UTC
            • A good paper that discusses this issue - harvey1 - January 20, 2002 - 22:00 UTC
            • Left=right, sure, and up=down, okay, but what=us? - luis_hamburgh - January 21, 2002 - 17:33 UTC
              • Luis, you are a little too selfish. - alexander - January 21, 2002 - 17:52 UTC
                • Alex, again you are making my point. Slow down & read it again. - luis_hamburgh - January 28, 2002 - 01:21 UTC
              • psychology of math - yanniru - January 22, 2002 - 15:10 UTC
                • Rain check. - luis_hamburgh - January 28, 2002 - 01:25 UTC
                  • Thanks(nt) - yanniru - January 28, 2002 - 15:42 UTC
        • Condensed soup - luis_hamburgh - January 21, 2002 - 17:23 UTC
          • re: Our condensed differences - harvey1 - January 21, 2002 - 18:11 UTC
            • if we do not know a thing, it is better to define it - yanniru - January 22, 2002 - 15:24 UTC
              • re: black holes - harvey1 - January 22, 2002 - 15:42 UTC
                • Celestine Prophecy - yanniru - January 23, 2002 - 15:30 UTC
                  • Synchronicity - harvey1 - January 23, 2002 - 16:16 UTC
                    • A good example of circularity - yanniru - January 25, 2002 - 00:34 UTC
                      • That doesn't make any sense to me - harvey1 - January 25, 2002 - 01:32 UTC
                        • I do not understand - yanniru - January 25, 2002 - 14:42 UTC
                          • You can never reach infinity via a finite process - harvey1 - January 25, 2002 - 15:29 UTC
                            • Give me a week - yanniru - January 26, 2002 - 14:32 UTC
                            • By the way, does evolution of BH multiverse produce - alexander - January 27, 2002 - 01:24 UTC
                              • Still an open question in string theory - yanniru - January 27, 2002 - 18:49 UTC
• Thus,unification (of,say,light and magnet)is mathematical result - alexander - January 19, 2002 - 18:42 UTC
  • Well, then... - harvey1 - January 19, 2002 - 19:53 UTC
    • No, I do not oppose it. As long as both mathematically related. - alexander - January 19, 2002 - 20:04 UTC
      • Then why do you object to a divine order? - harvey1 - January 19, 2002 - 20:38 UTC
        • You're both theists. n/t - luis_hamburgh - January 20, 2002 - 15:26 UTC
          • Theist accepts that God moves things without proof. - alexander - January 20, 2002 - 21:38 UTC
            • Acknowledge Godel's Theorem, or remain a theist! - luis_hamburgh - January 21, 2002 - 17:39 UTC
              • Luis, looks like you are unaware og Goedel theorem. - alexander - January 21, 2002 - 18:00 UTC
                • Penrose on Godel - yanniru - January 22, 2002 - 15:59 UTC
                  • Where is it? - harvey1 - January 22, 2002 - 21:33 UTC
                    • Penrose's interpretation - yanniru - January 23, 2002 - 15:34 UTC
                      • The first paragraph of Godel's paper - yanniru - January 25, 2002 - 00:37 UTC
                        • Must be careful - harvey1 - January 25, 2002 - 02:12 UTC
                          • something different than being derived - yanniru - January 25, 2002 - 15:05 UTC
                            • Don't rely on me - harvey1 - January 25, 2002 - 16:24 UTC
                • Alex, how is you know Godel better than him? - luis_hamburgh - January 28, 2002 - 01:29 UTC
        • No, I do not object any principle. As long as it exists. - alexander - January 20, 2002 - 20:56 UTC
          • Can't be - harvey1 - January 20, 2002 - 21:12 UTC
            • Interactions, interactions. - alexander - January 20, 2002 - 21:22 UTC
              • But - harvey1 - January 20, 2002 - 21:28 UTC
                • I do not see any problem here. - alexander - January 20, 2002 - 21:48 UTC
                  • I'm talking about a much bigger role for a unification principle - harvey1 - January 20, 2002 - 22:05 UTC
                    • I do not object-it is all math.No special arrangement for life - alexander - January 20, 2002 - 22:22 UTC
                      • As for different fundamental constants - harvey1 - January 21, 2002 - 04:42 UTC
                        • Alex: Math universe depends on NON-equivalence - dolphin - January 21, 2002 - 07:34 UTC
                          • Alan, no god(s) nor their acts were observed. - alexander - January 21, 2002 - 17:38 UTC
                            • "Explains" is a merry-go-round - dolphin - January 22, 2002 - 09:27 UTC
                              • Hey Alan - aurino - January 22, 2002 - 14:56 UTC
                                • Thank you, Aurino. But Google didn't find it! - dolphin - January 27, 2002 - 03:55 UTC
                        • No antropic principle needed. - alexander - January 21, 2002 - 18:08 UTC
                          • So, is this how you construe science? - harvey1 - January 21, 2002 - 18:18 UTC
                            • Harvey, those "papers" are not even worth their paper. - alexander - January 21, 2002 - 18:34 UTC
                          • Bulk - harvey1 - January 21, 2002 - 21:22 UTC
                            • s/b bunk (nt) - harvey1 - January 21, 2002 - 21:22 UTC
                            • I am just more open minded. - alexander - January 23, 2002 - 00:00 UTC
                          • Let's define open-mindedness - harvey1 - January 23, 2002 - 00:27 UTC
                            • Alex, let's define open-mindedness - harvey1 - January 23, 2002 - 00:30 UTC
                              • Oops, see the top where I reposted this. (nt) - harvey1 - January 23, 2002 - 00:32 UTC