Mario,

>>>While I don't agree with all of the conclusions he reaches, I agree that a mathematical order external to (or independent of) the universe probably does exist. Harv claims that makes me a theist. I don't see how. I can only suggest that it's a semantic difference: Harv views God as any underlying principle/order to the universe. I'm a lot more restrictive. I require sentience.>If it ain't sentient, it ain't divine. And personally I think self-awareness is a lot to ask for from a "divine order," no matter how influential and powerful it is. So, in short, I see room for God as far as mathemtical order/purpose goes, but no room for God as far as a sentient Creator goes.

• Your post went about six feet over my head - stormcrow - September 28, 2001 - 00:06 UTC
  • It's not so hard... - luis_hamburgh - September 28, 2001 - 00:25 UTC
  • Do not fret - harvey1 - September 28, 2001 - 05:15 UTC
    • Do not forget Goedel - yanniru - September 28, 2001 - 13:23 UTC
      • I don't like to talk about Gödel - harvey1 - September 28, 2001 - 14:05 UTC
    • Reconciling Contradictions - stormcrow - September 28, 2001 - 22:05 UTC
      • relations - harvey1 - September 29, 2001 - 00:34 UTC
• Are you a pantheist? - luis_hamburgh - September 28, 2001 - 01:12 UTC
  • No, I'm a panentheist - harvey1 - September 28, 2001 - 02:12 UTC
    • Panentheism is Pantheism with training wheels! - luis_hamburgh - September 29, 2001 - 02:38 UTC
      • What's your beef? - harvey1 - September 29, 2001 - 14:26 UTC
        • Dave Thomas would be proud - luis_hamburgh - September 29, 2001 - 21:11 UTC
          • Is that the guy from Wendy's? - harvey1 - September 29, 2001 - 22:02 UTC
            • Yes, but unfortunately his name is too common to stand out - luis_hamburgh - September 30, 2001 - 05:17 UTC
              • More on panentheism - harvey1 - October 1, 2001 - 04:07 UTC
                • Fear of the unknown :o - luis_hamburgh - October 1, 2001 - 23:33 UTC
                  • Only thing to fear is fear itself - harvey1 - October 2, 2001 - 03:40 UTC
                    • I meant Gnosticism... go back and reread! - luis_hamburgh - October 3, 2001 - 01:35 UTC
                      • moving back and forth between two camps - harvey1 - October 3, 2001 - 03:11 UTC
                        • Find another straw man, Alan - luis_hamburgh - October 3, 2001 - 23:14 UTC
                        • An Electron is... - harvey1 - October 4, 2001 - 01:41 UTC
                          • Gnosticism vs. Agnosticism - luis_hamburgh - October 5, 2001 - 00:06 UTC
                            • Some differences with gnosticism - harvey1 - October 5, 2001 - 03:08 UTC
                              • Correction - harvey1 - October 5, 2001 - 03:18 UTC
                              • Some similarities surface - luis_hamburgh - October 6, 2001 - 02:39 UTC
                                • Look down further - harvey1 - October 8, 2001 - 05:39 UTC
                      • re: Falsification - harvey1 - October 3, 2001 - 03:23 UTC
                        • Occam's Razor... - luis_hamburgh - October 3, 2001 - 23:16 UTC
                          • Doesn't matter - harvey1 - October 4, 2001 - 01:51 UTC
                      • The failure of agnosticism - harvey1 - October 8, 2001 - 05:31 UTC
                        • Beheaded Chickens - luis_hamburgh - October 9, 2001 - 00:09 UTC
                      • I'll stand in the line that says electrons exist - harvey1 - October 9, 2001 - 05:21 UTC
                        • "Philosophy in Science vs. Science in Philosophy" - by The Lemon - luis_hamburgh - October 10, 2001 - 23:57 UTC
                          • I'll let you have the last word - harvey1 - October 11, 2001 - 01:43 UTC