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For Jisbond

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Posted by Richard Ruquist on December 7, 2001 14:46:07 UTC

Jisbond and I are having a polite discussion in which he has called me a liar and I have called him a plagarist.

He called me a liar because I claimed that in one of his early references, "The foundation of Islamic belief", I claimed that research and investigation as well as theological discussion are condemned. He has challenged me to back up my claims.

Here is the link provided by jisbond

However, if you go there you no longer fing the Foundations of Islamic Belief by Al Ghazali there. Perhaps that is why jisbond feels that it is now safe to call me a liar. So I simply serached for Al Ghazali and found the following link to his Foundations of Belief.

To make things easy I will now excerp the appropriate passages to prove that Islam condemns investigation, research and theological discussion.

Ahmad ibn-Hanbal, said, "A scholastic theologian never succeeds. You cannot find anyone who, having dabbled in scholastic
theology, without unsoundness in his heart." He was so strong in its condemnation that he ostracized al Harith al Muhasibi, in
spite of the latter's asceticism and piety, because he wrote a work on the refutation of heresy, in which he told him, "Woe unto
you. Do you not first state their heretical beliefs and then answer them, thereby compelling men to study these heresies and to
ponder over these dubiosities, all of which will draw them into self opinionation and research."

Ahmad - may Allah have mercy on him - also said, "The scholastic theologians are heretics."

nor ever think of permitting the drinking of wine when a person
starts to choke over a mouthful of food and finds nothing with which to swallow it besides wine.(law above life)

For this reason the Prophet - praise and peace be upon him - said, "Destroyed are those who split hairs! Destroyed are those
who split hairs! Destroyed are those who split hairs! And these are those who are extravagant in investigation and research."

Abu-Yusuf said, "He who seeks knowledge through dogmatic theology will become a heretic. Al-Hasan said, "Neither argue
with heretics, associate with them nor listen to them."

This last quote is most interesting as it seems to say that Muslims are not allowed to post on forums such as this one.

I also added a quote that places law above life.

So I believe that these quotes from the Foundations of Islam prove that I am not a liar.

But at time same time my contention that jisbond has taken credit for the ancient kalam cosmological proof of god's existence makes him a plagarist still stands. His response was that since everything comes from Allah anyway, he cannot be a plagarist. I guess then that when Islam takes over a government, copyrights are outlawed.

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