Alex,

Since I know you're very smart, I wonder what you think about this:

Materialists believe that science has left no room in the universe for God. Since God has been proven not to exist, everything traditionally associated with the idea of God also goes down the drain, including the dearest of all beliefs, the afterlife. A man is his body, he comes from nothing, exists for some years, then disappears into nothing, never to be heard from again.

I can see the logical power of that argument but I also wonder what a materialist thinks of this:

Science has demonstrated that the universe is predictable. God is supposed to be a conscious being who interferes with the universe in the same way we think we interfere with our bodies. A predictable universe leaves no room for conscious actions, which are arbitrary by nature, so a conscious God cannot possibly exist. However, the laws that rule the universe also rule our bodies, which would imply that a conscious self cannot possibly exist. People who believe that they exist as a conscious self are simply ignorant of the laws of physics.

What is wrong with that argument? Isn't it as logical as the first one? No conscious God, no conscious man, isn't that inevitable? How does a materialist explain his irrational belief that he is conscious and has freewill?

When I ask materialists these kinds of questions, I usually get answers as dumb as those of a religious fanatic. I have yet to find a person whose bold assertions hold any water. Are you up to the challenge?

• Please define "conscious" before we discuss this. - alexander - July 5, 2001 - 19:14 UTC
  • A practical, logical, non-dogmatic approach - aurino - July 5, 2001 - 20:44 UTC
    • Answer on all your questions depend on what you call consciouse. - alexander - July 5, 2001 - 21:08 UTC
      • More about consciouseness. - alexander - July 5, 2001 - 22:46 UTC
        • A computer is not conscience. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 01:16 UTC
        • Another thing about Computers. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 01:22 UTC
          • Another thing about biology - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 01:40 UTC
            • Human's are no where near that simple - highvoltage - July 6, 2001 - 01:48 UTC
              • I oversimplified, but the premise is the same - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 02:08 UTC
                • Not exaclty. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 04:03 UTC
                  • I agree with you on the level of complexity - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 04:17 UTC
                    • Not crossed wires - highvoltage - July 6, 2001 - 05:39 UTC
                    • I disagree about you saying that pople have no free-will. - motumos - July 6, 2001 - 05:50 UTC
                      • Actually atomic bomb was against Stalin's growing power. - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 16:58 UTC
                        • It was a choice nontheless - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 00:23 UTC
                        • Even you typing this reply was a choice, not a necessity. - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 00:34 UTC
                          • Not neccesarily - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 02:34 UTC
                            • I don't think so - highvoltage - July 7, 2001 - 03:32 UTC
                            • Free will works regardless of normal DNA in humans. - caprinicus - July 7, 2001 - 03:52 UTC
                              • I'll try and explain - stormcrow - July 7, 2001 - 13:55 UTC
                                • Wrong again. - caprinicus - July 8, 2001 - 13:08 UTC
                                  • Omni-Post - stormcrow - July 9, 2001 - 00:17 UTC
                                    • God-days may be true - highvoltage - July 9, 2001 - 05:22 UTC
                                      • Sure, back it up - stormcrow - July 9, 2001 - 13:40 UTC
                                        • God days.... - highvoltage - July 9, 2001 - 17:07 UTC
                                          • I see your point, but doesn't this prove the Bible's ambiguity? - stormcrow - July 9, 2001 - 19:31 UTC
                                            • Doens't prove the bible's ambiguity - highvoltage - July 9, 2001 - 20:16 UTC
                                              • Bible is full of impossible phenomena. - alexander - July 9, 2001 - 20:43 UTC
                                                • again proof - terry - November 15, 2001 - 12:36 UTC
                                  • Caprinicus - you don't know how brain, universe, etc works. - alexander - July 9, 2001 - 18:43 UTC
            • Here's the difference - aurino - July 6, 2001 - 13:55 UTC
              • NOT ALL BRAIN CELLS are speech, image and sound related. - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 17:11 UTC
      • Can you answer the question or not? - aurino - July 6, 2001 - 12:58 UTC
        • Am I conscious? How do I know if consciouseness is undefined? - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 17:14 UTC
          • A surreal dialogue - aurino - July 6, 2001 - 17:35 UTC
            • Primitive example. - alexander - July 6, 2001 - 17:41 UTC
            • Even though I disagree, that was pretty funny. (nt) - stormcrow - July 6, 2001 - 17:47 UTC