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Posted by Mario Dovalina on June 12, 2001 04:23:24 UTC

Perhaps I need to clarify my point. I haven't had enough time yet to totally write down everything I feel on the issue, so here goes:

I don't mean to attack religion's usefulness as an institution. Religious believers are proven to live longer, happier lives. It helps to unite society and provide a center for culture. This is the usefulness of religion. I DON'T DEBATE THAT.

I just question the objective reality of religious faith. And this is the one point where I can say you are flat-out, completely, dead wrong. Belief does not correlate to reality. There is reality outside the human mind. If I were to extend your logic to its limit, you would be arguing that the universe did not exist until man developed from it (how's THAT for a logical contradiction?) that the sun revolved around the earth until Galileo suggested otherwise, that the speed of light was NOT the fastest matter could go until Einstein proved it was, and that if you don't believe you're hit by a train, then you're not. To put it frankly: bullshit. I may believe with all my might that we are all in reality green octopi from Dimension X, but it wouldn't make that belief any less wrong. Either we are green octupi or not. My belief on the issue does not sway it one way or the other.

You have no belief. You simply have belief in the usefulness of belief. You believe that since religion helps people live better lives, it is valid. You believe that since the majority of the population believes in God, they are correct. (This is beside the point, but would you say that Man created God in his image rather than t'other way 'round? You're a modern Copernicus!) You believe that happiness is the only reason for living, regardless of the foundation/consequences of that happiness. If God did not exist, you would rather not know. So.... is that a belief...... or simply a fear of what the truth may be?

"don't think that people have to be insane , illogical, or unproductive to BE happy"

That's not what I meant.... honest. :) I consider myself relatively happy. I've made my peace with death. But when happiness is molded around what essentially amounts to self-delusion in the name of "enlightenment," it is a potentially destructive force. Whenever people CONSCIOUSLY choose delusions over the pursuit of truth (eg: you) it frightens me.

"It is imperative that a human have something to support his existence with. Does that humble us? YES IT DOES , AND THAT'S WHY I THINK SO MANY PEOPLE WANT TO " DISPROVE THINGS " BECAUSE THEY

Here, you actually have a point. Although I don't think any sane person would say they weren't dependent on SOMETHING. It doesn't have to be a God. Assuming it does is being a tad silly. I always saw the issue from the other way, though. It's not that Atheists won't admit they're dependent, it's that Theists won't admit they're potentially accidental. People need a reason to live, and they don't give a damn if that reason is true or not (and they will actively prevent themselves from learning otherwise.) Spirituality without concrete conclusions is FINE (and beneficial.) Concrete conclusions about spirituality is NOT.

So there.

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