"I think you would agree that now, once the universe is in motion, no God is needed to push the sun across the sky, it's self-running."

Yes, but the key is in your quote: "once the universe is in motion" Once it is in motion, then no God is required. But I believe God was required to put it in motion. How else could these increbible complex and universal laws have come about? To imply they arose from nothing boggles the mind.

"A society cannot exist, for example, when murder is condoned. Noone would trust each other and the society would collapse."

This is your reason why we don't kill eachother? What does this matter anyway? Do you think the majority of people are thinking before every action, 'will this benefit society?'. I don't think so.

"Have you ever seen a dog's face when it craps inside the house and knows it shouldn't have? It reacts in a way humans would equate with genuine shame and guilt. Ever seen a cat's reaction when you come home from a long trip? It reacts in a way humans would equate with genuine affection and loneliness. Animals have emotions."

Yes, animals have emotions. I did not say they didn't. I said they did not have a moral code. I have a cat and had a dog (a Golden retrevier, he got hit by a car :( ), and I love(d) them. What do emotions have to do with a moral code? When a pit-bull (I have nothing against pit-bulls, they are soo cute as puppies) bites and kills a child, does it feel remorse?

"Are these actions you would expect to see in a creature totally devoid of moral sentiment?"

Mario, is it wrong to kill a human for no reason? If you answer yes, then please explain why.

Sam, KC2GWX

• I don't like that assumption - harvey1 - October 23, 2002 - 13:28 UTC
  • If a computer program can do it... - yaniru - October 23, 2002 - 14:23 UTC
    • Sam and I are not in agreement - harvey1 - October 23, 2002 - 15:48 UTC
      • My point was..... - kc2gwx - October 23, 2002 - 15:58 UTC
      • I disagree. - phillipmartin - October 23, 2002 - 23:08 UTC
        • Laws? We don't need no stickin' laws - harvey1 - October 23, 2002 - 23:42 UTC
          • Gods? We Don't Need No Stickin' Gods - phillipmartin - October 24, 2002 - 00:42 UTC
            • Sure you do - harvey1 - October 24, 2002 - 05:16 UTC
              • Well... - phillipmartin - October 24, 2002 - 22:53 UTC
                • Well... Well... - harvey1 - October 25, 2002 - 12:38 UTC
                  • No - stormcrow - October 25, 2002 - 14:29 UTC
                    • See my response above (nt) - harvey1 - October 25, 2002 - 15:58 UTC
              • ohh, speaking of Alexander... - phillipmartin - October 25, 2002 - 00:46 UTC
                • Or, for those of you with fast connections... - phillipmartin - October 25, 2002 - 01:04 UTC
              • Who "beat" Alexander, Harv? Nobody. - occupant - October 25, 2002 - 03:09 UTC
                • paranoia - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 11:19 UTC
                  • Man, did you read this? - stormcrow - October 25, 2002 - 13:58 UTC
                    • Agreed- That is even better evidence - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 14:47 UTC
                    • Evidence that a 20-year-old major in electrical engineering - occupant - October 25, 2002 - 15:46 UTC
                      • Sorry-- paranoia - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 18:34 UTC
                    • Wow, how do you post those links? - spazcon - October 26, 2002 - 04:24 UTC
                      • Just type in the address, it does the rest by itself. - phillipmartin - October 26, 2002 - 21:42 UTC
                        • Cool ! Testing..... - spazcon - October 27, 2002 - 00:52 UTC
  • Why? - stormcrow - October 23, 2002 - 16:03 UTC
    • I consider God as sentient - harvey1 - October 23, 2002 - 17:07 UTC
      • Hmm - stormcrow - October 24, 2002 - 00:05 UTC
        • Self-running universes - harvey1 - October 24, 2002 - 04:50 UTC
          • A discovery ! - occupant - October 24, 2002 - 14:27 UTC
            • Box holder - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 11:20 UTC
              • Yaniru must apologize clearly, often, and profusely - occupant - October 25, 2002 - 15:53 UTC
                • I tried apologies - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 18:35 UTC
                  • Show us sincere apologies that were not spam - carefuluniverse - October 25, 2002 - 22:37 UTC
                    • Sorry- You used the vulgar slurs - yaniru - October 26, 2002 - 13:04 UTC
          • More - stormcrow - October 25, 2002 - 14:25 UTC
            • I agree with Mario - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 14:50 UTC
              • Really? :) - stormcrow - October 25, 2002 - 16:25 UTC
                • Science is my religion as well as all the others - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 18:46 UTC
              • Is this because of my 'vote'? - harvey1 - October 25, 2002 - 17:48 UTC
                • Your vote did not bias my opinion - yaniru - October 25, 2002 - 18:38 UTC
                  • Duh...Ruquist is Norwegian - carefuluniverse - October 26, 2002 - 01:14 UTC
                    • Another false assumption - yaniru - October 26, 2002 - 13:12 UTC
            • Not so - harvey1 - October 25, 2002 - 17:35 UTC
              • Meaning and truth - yaniru - October 26, 2002 - 13:33 UTC
                • Not butting in - harvey1 - October 27, 2002 - 16:08 UTC
                  • Speculations that are compatible with physics - quiet - October 27, 2002 - 17:56 UTC
                    • Population biology, ecology and even casino management - yaniru - October 28, 2002 - 00:24 UTC
                    • Population biology, ecology and even casino management - yaniru - October 28, 2002 - 00:24 UTC
                      • Please show that evolution has been "energy efficient" - quiet - March 29, 2003 - 21:35 UTC
                  • They all involve speculation; they have that in common - quiet - October 28, 2002 - 05:35 UTC
                    • I do not have to prove antyjing - yaniru - October 28, 2002 - 10:41 UTC
• Nah - stormcrow - October 25, 2002 - 16:38 UTC