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Implication And Insinuation

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Posted by Eric Clark on October 30, 2003 13:40:46 UTC

Harv,

Based on some of your previous replies –-
“Do you believe the God is a Spirit which can communicate to you ?
Yes, of course.
Do you believe that His Spirit in not a pure form of truth ?
Yes, it is a pure form of truth, but it is not something which we can know in full.”
-- I am going to presume that you claim to be a Christian as taught in the Christian Bible.

Take this post in that light.
For I speak harder truth to believers than to my friends that are not believers.



RE:>> * [unfriendly because]It is your beliefs on I Sam.15 and then you subsequent implication that I am not on the right track because I don't agree that God is a Saddam Hussein wantabe. *

If you are unable to separate your person from your belief in a discussion,
I do not believe any fruitful benefit can come easily.
If I use a noun or pronoun which points to you as a person,
it will usually be quite clear. I try to be honest and unshy,
(Is unshy a real word?) so there will likely be no need to
draw it out with imaginations of implications and insinuations.
“You are impatient.” This type of statement would indicate a person rather than a person’s belief.
“Your belief about God makes you evil.” -vs- “Your belief about I Samuel 15 points to an evil God.”
Do you see any difference here ?
You have made a similar statement to this second form and I have no problem with that, other than it provides no real useful information and indicates that you seemingly want no further information about it.
I believe Matthew 7:11. I believe what Jesus said about you and me.
I would never need to identify anyone as evil. My God already has.
But He has also provided THE WAY to overcome.
This is my story. This is my song. Praising my Saviour all the day long.

The method of research and communication used widely for Science generally attempts to leave out any reference or analysis of the scientists and concentrates instead on the science itself. I suggest that the method of research and communication for God should be no different.
If we can give one another the least little benefit of the doubt in this method,
we can likely communicate much more efficiently. Attempting to put additional clarifications where some might at first be needed would clearly be helpful,
but this can usually only be done effectively with spending time. Unfortunately, in a Forum conversation, the time resources are not readily available for putting together something that may require lengthy research. That leaves us here -- giving one another the benefit and asking or providing additional clarification when the answers are lacking (as far as accurately communicating the message).

The only line of separation I really try to draw distinctly is between those beliefs that have a person on the road to hell and those beliefs which do not. If there is a more important distinction than this, I have not yet identified it. If you think identifying who you believe is on the road to hell and attempting to convert their belief to the opposite is evil, hateful, etc., then I clearly do not understand your belief system at all.
Even if we BOTH believe that BOTH of us are NOT on the road to hell.
will we disagree on some things ?
I have never heard of more than one person (outside of the Trinity and the sum total of all non-critical thinkers) as having the exact same beliefs.
Is communication about closely held personal beliefs easy and unemotional,
especially those regarding how you will spend eternity ?
Since this is an area that has the most dire or most pleasant consequences, it can definitely be a rollercoaster, but in time, willing parties can usually reach a level where there is less compulsion (by human nature) to draw as many innuendoes which tend to lead to incorrect conclusions. When such incorrect conclusions are identified, we should clearly desire and provide clarifications even though that may require a rehash of some information already covered.
No one that I know of is asking for perfection, though Richard might say that Jesus does expect perfection of him. I we strive for just a moderate level of imperfection, I think we will move along quite rapidly toward understanding one another’s beliefs. I pray this is not to much to ask and I hope you know that I can sympathize with unrelated personal circumstances which may impact your well being.

Having said this peace, and I do want peace, my friend, let’s go on as I believe we can become even better friends.

Let’s take a look at how this friend thing got off to a slow start.

RE:>> * [unfriendly because]It is your beliefs on I Sam.15 and then you subsequent implication that I am not on the right track because I don't agree that God is a Saddam Hussein wantabe. *
Neither do I agree that God is a Saddam Hussein wantabe.
( This is an incorrect conclusion about my belief.)


RE:>> * This view of God [Saddam Hussein wantabe] is not consistent with the Christian God, *
True - Presuming that “the Christian God” is the same God as
the God revealed through the Christian Bible of 66 books.
The Book of books(KJV) about the Lord of lords and King of kings.
We seem to have agreement here, though I’ll make the KJV an issue only where there is substance difference with another book.

Repeating … RE:>> * This view of God [Saddam Hussein wantabe] is not consistent with the Christian God, *
What this really means is that what you have understood thus far of my view is not consistent with what you have understood thus far of the Christian God.
You have not seen my full view as yet, nor do I believe your view of the Christian God is yet complete. Mine certainly will never be. He tells me that and I believe it.

RE:>> * and for some reason you want all of us to glorify this kind of god when in fact it is an evil depiction of God. *
This is your own depiction.You have not heard out my depiction.

RE:>> * If you want to call me friend, then treat me as one. Stop insinuating that I am evil because I don't agree that God is worse than Saddam Hussein. *
I do not mean to insinuate that you are evil. You are evil. This is no insinuation.
That said, I am evil. (no insinuation here either) I am evil.
But I do not indicate that you are evil BECAUSE you don’t agree that God is worse than Saddam Hussein. Indeed, I do not agree that God is worse than Saddam Hussein, and yet, I am still evil. No, dear friend. We are evil because of the sin nature we have inherited from Adam. But this does not have to condemn us.
God, in His great love, has provided the perfect plan of redemption and freely offered it to us. A gift. No strings. We only break His heart by not accepting it.
That Gift is His Son. ( http://whitestonepublishing.org/the_free_gift.doc )

RE:>> * I can tolerate your view of God as a devil, even though I have pity that you feel this way about the Lord of the Universe. *
You did not, at first, appear tolerant. ( This is to your person.)
If you review your remarks, I believe you would at least agree that the appearance
could have easily been such. My intent is not to offend but to bring truth.
Truth sometimes offends. I pray you can discern the message from the messenger.
I think you will find that once I am able to reveal more fully my view, you won’t believe it to be nearly as “evil” as you perceive at first glance.

God worse than Saddam Hussein ? Let’s see…
God will provide an eternal body for each infant that dies and they will spend eternity together with Him enjoying His love and grace. In addition, those that have reach the age of accountability with God and have chosen to trust in His Son will also share the same joy.

Now, Saddam Hussein kills, but cannot do anything for anyone’s eternal destiny.
He doesn’t have a perfect son, but presuming that that he did, and you had done something to be indebted to Saddam that he said deserved a torturous death, do you think he would give his son to take your place and serve your punishment ?
Of course, even if he did this (fat chance), he still could not give you anything that would last for an eternity out of his love (fat chance) for you.
Would Saddam willingly take a beating and then offer his hands and feet to be nailed to a cross so that he could shed his own blood to make up for the wrong that you did to him ? After all this, could Hussein make you a new heart by a circumcision made without hands and be there to provide you with wisdom and blessings ?

Yes, I suppose this view does make God look much worse than Saddam Hussein.
What do you think ? Oh, what a terrible evil God.

I am really concerned about you, Harv. Specifically, your view of God’s word.
Is the Holy Spirit that you believe in the same One that confirms that God became flesh ? Is it the same Holy Spirit that convicts you of sin ? Is it the same Holy Spirit, through whom alone, can guide you into all truth of His Word ?
Is this the same Holy Spirit that teaches you that God really is “the Lord of the Universe” ? Does this Universe that He is Lord of include you. Have you made Him your own Lord ? Do you know what the Lord of the Universe said about the words in I Samuel 15 ? He called them the scriptures. He called them His own words.
Do you recall the Holy Spirit teaching you that these events and words were not true ? If so, please explain after confirming with Him again..

“Lord” of the Universe… Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name ?
Do you know what the Lord said about some people that will come to Him saying this ?
Maybe this part should be lumped with I Samuel 15 so you can ignore it too as reality.
If you do not trust His words, do you really trust Him ?
You need to check what the Holy Spirit says about that Book.
After that, you may just need to check your pants.
I love you brother, but I love Him too, and he wants me to inform you about Him.

If you haven’t really entered into a loving relationship with Him, please ignore any admonitions in this post, but if you have, I hope you know that this is part of our calling – to turn a brother that begins to wander off the narrow path.
Yes, it is narrow and if you intend to teach about it, you better not only remember how narrow, but you should pray about James 3:1 and ask the Lord for wisdom.

RE:>> * What happens to Duane? Does he have any say? *
I don’t know. You’ll have to ask him.
I don’t think he and I ever conversed. Of course, since our views seem to be fairly similar, we don’t really have much need I would guess.

Love to you, friend and confidant.

Eric %^)

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