~~"The point is trying to understand, not trying to discover the truth."~~

If you're not trying to discover the truth, then what exactly are you trying to understand?

~~"The truth is that your car is "your car" for as long as you and others think so. Saying that cars do not really exist, only parts do, doesn't explain what makes your car "your car". "~~

This is precisely what I was talking about. What makes my car "my car"? The same thing that makes me "me". Me. Which means, in essence, that the identity of your car, just as the identity of yourself, is based entirely within your own mind and thus cannot be externalized to declare some inviolate "I".

~~"Why does anything have to survive reductionism? Because reductionism is true?"~~

Reductionism can't be *true* any more than science can be true. Reductionism and science aren't statements of reality in themselves, rather they are approaches that lead to statements of reality. I cannot see why reductionism would lead to untrue statements. Can you? We're talking pure, simple logic here.

~~"Does that mean that terms like "red" or "lake" really have no meaning then?"~~

They are terms that we use to describe real objects or phenomena. To that extent, they have "meaning." What I'm arguing is that the universe does not discriminate between red and orange: the distinction that we draw between the two is entirely human and externally rather meaningless. The same can apply to identity.

• Sorry you came back? ;-) - villa-lobos - May 23, 2003 - 17:50 UTC
  • Eh, when I have all day off I need to occupy myself *somehow* :) - stormcrow - May 23, 2003 - 18:08 UTC
    • It's nice to have you here - villa-lobos - May 23, 2003 - 18:33 UTC
      • Arguing with you is always a unique experience - stormcrow - May 23, 2003 - 19:07 UTC
        • Urgh.... grammar error. - stormcrow - May 23, 2003 - 19:08 UTC
        • So is going to the dentist - villa-lobos - May 23, 2003 - 19:53 UTC
          • Uniqueness is a double-edged sword - stormcrow - May 23, 2003 - 22:51 UTC
  • Pencil A and Pencil B! - doctordick - May 24, 2003 - 00:36 UTC
    • let me hazzard a guess - sagefr0g - May 24, 2003 - 01:26 UTC
    • Who's Pauli? Some pencil-maker? - villa-lobos - May 26, 2003 - 13:10 UTC
  • Communication is impossible! - doctordick - May 24, 2003 - 00:39 UTC
    • I'm sorry I have no idea what you are talking about - harvey1 - May 24, 2003 - 03:40 UTC
    • Decipher me or I will devour you - villa-lobos - May 26, 2003 - 13:23 UTC