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Posted by Luis Hamburgh on September 16, 2001 18:41:46 UTC

Harv,

I have always held that math is 'about a metaphysical order,' but I do not agree that math *is* metaphysical order. It's a reflection of our ability to describe it, but nothing real is purely its description alone.

To pursue this argument is explicitly non-scientific (but fun, nonetheless!), and will result in an ontological argument. This result reinforces the original assertion.

(Note: although I advanced my argument in an ontological form, it has become its own reinforcement in more than an ontological way – you and I have borne out the inductive proof of my argument. Hence, my position has arisen above ontology, as there is an obvious distinction between prediction and eventuality.)

As far as my objection to 'meaning' (and at the risk of sounding Clinton-esque), the 'meaning' I object to is not 'meaning' as defined "descriptive of something," but the definition of "having a purpose.” This definition of 'meaning' (which I clearly differentiated as "metaphysical" meaning) presupposes an initiator, i.e. God, behind mathematical structure.

Both sides have to make assumptions. Neither science nor anyone else can make any progress without making assumptions. Yes, these assumptions are vital, but they're really nothing more than opinions.

>>>"you have to substantiate that this position holds water"

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