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 Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...The Space and Astronomy Agora For The First Time Harv....(posted Below) Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response ToPosted by Mark on August 31, 2001 18:00:05 UTC

I actualy understood you. Not that you don't speak with clarity, It's just that this subject is a hard one for me to comprehend at times.

Now I understand where you are coming from.....

It all comes down to what is more fundamental, the axioms upon which mathematical rules are constructed..........or the universe which brought forth these axioms. Was the universe built upon the criteria that it must obey axioms, or were the axioms a byproduct of our universe's existance?....is the question to be answerred here.

I think between the chicken and the egg......neither came first. It seems feesible that both the universe and mathematics could co-exist independantly, side-by-side.

>>>At best all you can say is that our mathematics is a rough approximation and nothing more (just coincidence). c then a > c ~~~~~~~Precise mathematical axiom.....not physics approximation. F = G(m1 x m2)/d^2.....mathematical approximation of gravitational force in physics(very accurate I may add).
So "pure" mathematics is independant of any physical universe and any physical universe exisits independant of pure mathematics. It still stands that any physical universe may not contain any logical impossibility, for if such an impossibility exists then we must deem it a possibility, and it was never impossible in the first place. Since "impossible" is obviously different than "possible", it stands that the potential for differentiation of concepts and objects......is an imbedded consequence. Monads don't exist. Let's call the difference between possible and impossible....."the differentiation potential" (or DP). Then all axioms spring forth from this DP as a consequence; math is built upon these axioms. The universe also springs fourth amongst various DP possibilities......it is the physical manifestation of such.
Draw a universe from axioms, or derive axioms from a universe......which ever you like. Each are one and the same....they are complimentary aspects of the same thing. One just happens to be physical (universe) and the other mental (math).....different sides of the same coin. Whether logarithmic spirals on a sea shell, Fibonacci numerical arrangements on a pineapple.......or random distribution of prime numbers and particle masses.

The universe is a physical manifestation of math is a mental manifestation of the universe is a physical manifestation of math is a mental manifest....ad infinitum.