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Why Not Take The New Testament Literally?

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Posted by Richard Ruquist on August 21, 2003 21:58:44 UTC

You said:
If you wish to put your faith in 3,000 year old science, be my guest.

I am basing my judgments on literal word meanings of the Torah and current science which is in agreement with the Torah.

***Current science is not in agreement with the literal Torah***

I am somewhat puzzled at the term “3,000 year old science”.

***The science in the Torah is 3,000 years old***

I know of no one else who believes the Earth is billions of years old

***Everybody I know does***

and that life on the earth is only 6000 years old.

***Nobody I know thinks life is just 6,000 yeras old. That is fundamentalist thinking***

If you are saying I am dating the Earth at 6000 years please remember that was your interpretation of the Torah not mine.

***That is notmy interpretation. That is the literal interpretation. If you think differently, you are not taking the Torah literally. Good for you.***

You said:
The fossile record and the radioactive dating both put the earth orders of magnitude older than the Hebrew calendar.

**That is correct science***

I am not sure how you have determined that the fossil record in itself indicates an objects age unless you are using the evolutionary theory to prove the evolutionary theory.

**I already told you it is not a theory. So I have no idea what you are talking about. There is no math in the concepts of evolution***

As for the radioactive dating this is my understanding of the process.

A rock is formed which radionuclide the K atom is present which generates Ar gas and a decayed K atom as it decomposes by physical laws according to its half life.

***You do not know much science. There are many materials that decay and provide a means to date the materials***

Please note that a literal interpretation of the Torah indicates that the Earth rocks have been here an unspecified and apparently lengthy time, which could easily be billions of years.

**That is not the literal interpretation. That is your interpretation which is not in agreement with any other fundamentalist writings that I have read.***

A radioactive dating of billions of years for a rock is what I would expect.

In a catastrophic event like a world wide flood, the concentrations of K Ar and decayed K which had developed in a rock a billion years old would be reformed into a new sediment structure without giving any of the trace elements a chance to escape. This would create a rock structure which would have the trace element concentrations of a very old date.

***Since when does water transform rock, except maybe into blood in the new testament***

In common practice at this point the fossil is assumed to be the same age as the radioactive date calculated for the surrounding strata.
Actual fossils are not able to be dated due to the absence of sufficient quantities of radioactive materials.

***Not true. Since when do you have scientific training in archaeology***

I am not saying that the radioactive dating is always wrong, I’m just saying we need to understand its limitations and how a history as describe in the Torah would affect the interpretation of the data accumulated.

***Speak for yourself. The scientists do understand***

Carbon 14 dating assumes that the concentration of Carbon 14 has been increasing on a straight line curve for millions of years.

***You just said it was only K dating***

If the concentration of carbon 14 was minimal in the atmosphere before a catastrophic flood then the low carbon 14 concentrations would cause large time calculation errors.

You said:
I will put my faith in modern science and in the god it reveals.

How about some current science?

***Special relativity proves that light does not experience time. The new testament says god is light and it is reasonable to assume that god does not age. Therefore special relativity is consistent with that concept of god***

If the earth was under a water canopy as I believe it was according to the Torah it would have similar temperatures and weather conditions on all continents.

***Even you should know this is incorrect. Water would freeze at the poles***
In that case the Northern and Southern polar regions should have tropical fossil species similar to the equator.


Which they do.

***They do because for millions of years the platlets have been migrating***

As I was composing this response I realized that no matter what evidence I brought which would suggest the Torah was correct the evidence could also be explained by adding a few million years somewhere in the evolutionary theory history which complied with the new data.

***It is all history- no theory***

It is similar to being able to use an equation to describe any number of random data points as long as you are allowed to have an unlimited number of variables in the equation.

***You are introducing the random variables like water transforming the atomic nature of rock ***

You can say the North and South poles move, or propose greenhouse gases cause climate changes, or just say the entire Earth was warmer during a million year period to explain tropical plants at the north and south pole.

***We know the temperature of the earth as a function of time over at least the last million years***

So I guess its like you said.

God will not provide absolute proof because He desires us to choose to believe in His existence with a free will and if we are given absolute proof there is no free will choice.

***True. But he is devilish enough to lead us astray with false hopes and interpretations***

It is interesting that God has painted himself in a corner by putting specific time constraints on His description of creation life on Earth.

***That was Babylonian science that was adopted by jews exiled in Babylonia. God did not write the Torah. Moses did not write the Torah. It was written by jews in exile who wanted to preserve the oral tradition***

In essence by creating the Torah God has limited himself to just a few variables which must still comply with all the data.

***Again, god did not create the Torah. A bunch of jews did***

The original text can not be modified to comply with new information.

***The original text is illogical, as I pointed out to you previously***

That is of course only if we take a literal interpretation.

You should yake a literal interpretation of what Jesus said. That is the closest you will evber come to the word of god. Yet you neglect what he said you should do. Your priorities are confused***

If the Torah continues to comply with the available data as it has been it may be considered to be an indication that the Torah was indeed composed by God.

***It only complies with the idea of evolution. The details are incorrect and slightly out of order. Please tell me why you need to think the Torah is the word of god and not what Jesus said in the new testament***

I think God’s biggest problem is that His Torah is continually being redefined ( or reinterpret ) to say something which it doesn't say.

***The Torah is jewish literature. It has some metaphorical truth. But god did not write it. Humans did. What you are reading is not even what the jews wrote. The original hebrew was modified by King James and only recently have we gotten better translations, except for the TRANSLATION BY JEWS INTO ENGLISH.***



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