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Posted by Harvey on May 26, 2002 03:52:54 UTC

Aaron,

Have you ever studied science? I can only shake my head at just about everything you wrote.

***When an object rotates most of the force of rotation will be on the outside of the object. So it makes perfect sense that most of the rotational force is on the planets and not the sun. However this leaves even more of a problem for the evs. If the solar system came from a mass of dust left over from another star and most of the force was on the outside of the disk, then all planets and moons MUST rotate the same way. Since this isn't the case. The current theory must be rexamined to see if it can get around this key flaw, if not it must be put aside untill evidence can be found to support it.***

These are scientific issues that will eventually find resolution in scientific papers. For example, some interesting computer simulations may have already resolved the 'problem' of retrograde rotation:

http://physicsweb.org/article/news/05/6/6

***This leaves really only two options:
1. The Solar System was formed by unknown means.
2. The Solar System was created by God.***

Of course the solar system was formed by unknown means. The purpose of astrophysics is to find out how it formed. We are gaining a great deal of knowledge by observing the formation of solar systems in Orion's Belt and other planetary nebulas, but it takes time to sort out the mechanisms involved in these observed processes. It is difficult to understand how the interior of the sun works simply by observing the sun without instruments, similarly it is difficult to understand astrophysicists with a great deal of sensitive instruments. You don't believe that the sun works on mysterious reasons that cannot be understood, do you? Similarly, why should we throw up our hands and say that there are no physical causes for the solar system, simply because the science is still murky. If we should give up at this stage, we would have never accomplished anything in science. This conversation wouldn't even be happening because there would be no electromagnetic theory to create computers and the internet.

***Obviously I would pick #2 due to my faith.***

You confuse God's role. God is the final causative agent in the universe. That doesn't mean that the sun works simply because God pumps out heat.

***However since both are currently unprovable we must leave this out of the science fact realm and into the faith realm.***

This is why I think you lack an appreciation of science. Science does not prove, it provides models. Those models provide reasonable understanding about the phenomena in question and provide other means to test the model. The nebula hypothesis is off to a great track record since those flat disk clouds have been spotted by Hubble and other telescopes. There's a great deal of evidence from these telescopes that are accumulating the superb insight of this hypothesis (as a general understanding). The specific mechanisms still have much to be understood.

***One can't lable either as fact by scientific means, this is currently impossible. The funny thing is that many scientists never admit to this idea and countinue to hold on to their beliefs as fact and teach them as such, when they are still just theories.***

Few scientists will admit to their mechanisms as fact. The nebula hypothesis itself appears to be a 'fact'. We have strong visible evidence that stars are forming the nebula aftermaths of supernova explosions. If we cannot consider visual confirmation as factual, then I don't know if the term factual carries any meaning whatsoever.

***I will not claim that I can prove God to be a FACT scientificaly, but I will still try to find evidence to prove he does exist. I do however think that many things prove that God exists, but untill God basically shows up down here on Earth. I can't scientifcly prove he exists.***

You too often confuse the existence of God with young-earth creationism. A small, small percentage of people believes in biblical young-earth creationism, but a belief in God is rather the majority. The status of young-earth creationism has little to do with the existence of God. This young-earth creationism is just a poor understanding of the biblical text and even poorer understanding of science. It is perhaps one of the most ridiculous beliefs held by a small collection of intelligent people. I would say the most ridiculous, but unfortunately smart people find a way to believe anything in small enough numbers (and if they isolate themselves from the mainstream).

***I so hope that I can show you that he exists due to the evidence that I can find in Nature.***

You should stop trying to support God's existence by denying the obviousness of the universe's age. Inventing stupid ideas such as God creating the universe with 'apparent age' is so dumb that I'm afraid you are making more atheists than believers. You might as well argue for a flat square earth because the Bible says the 'four corners of the world'. Of course, that's not to be taken literal is it? (oh brother, how convenient to hold the keys to 'correct' interpretation).

***This search for the truth is my goal and my hope.***

I wish I could believe this, but I have to be honest. I believe you are only interested in converting people and have little interest in learning truth if that truth included evolutionary theory. I tend to think that this kind of truth is so 'evil' to your way of thinking that you cannot possibly entertain it as correct. Truth usually isn't found when we are unwilling to entertain being wrong.

***May God bless all of you who seek the truth and May God help those who don't seek the truth to seek the truth.***

I appreciate this jesture, but what if that truth includes evolutionary theory as being true? What do you do then?

***Oh and by the way I beleive God cuased the some of the planets to rotate backwards just to make the theory that all matter used to be in one swirling dot look stupid.***

I hope you aren't serious. I don't know when you and Sam are kidding and when you are expressing your sincere view. If you are honest here, then I can only think that you picture God as a deceiver who enjoys lying to humanity. My understanding of God is one of love and a desire for humans to understand the universe. I don't think God gives us the answers, but I do believe he made the universe with enough bread crums on the ground so that we naturally learn all that we are supposed to learn while on this yellow brick road. There is no deceit. We simply have to put forth the effort and dedication to truth.

Fortunately we have scientists who are dedicated to truth. Some of these folks have even sacrificed their careers for the sake of truth. They work long hours, endure numerous hardships (in places like Antarctic during the winter, etc) all in an attempt to provide truth to humanity. What a noble profession - and often not seeing the enormous pay of legal, medicine, and business professions. If only all of us could be so dedicated to the calling of truth.

Warm regards, Harv

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