[i]"They are not ultimately decided. If the eternal god exists out of time, then the ultimate decisions are made before time even begins. So what is our purpose here if what ultimately happens is already decided?"[/i]

Yes and no. The mystery to this is how can the future already exist if we haven't made our decisions yet. But, this is not really a mystery. We have examples of this in our daily life. All we have to do is look to our past. Yesterday, did you make any decisions? I'm sure you did. Did you feel you had made those decisions mostly freely (I assume this is the case)? So, what is different than the future? If the past exists, then it either always existed, or it came to exist at some point in time. However, if it came to exist at some point in time, then prior to the point that it existed, it must have been 'certain' since it certainly happened as it did. If it was 'certain' prior to its existing, then where is the free will? Remember, it was just as 'certain' at the time of the big bang, which means that the events that occurred yesterday - either if they existed eternally or existed as 'certain' to occur - were all decisions made from the foundation of the world.

The same goes for God. Whatever God did yesterday is certain. But, if is certain today, then it is equally certain before he did that particular action since, in fact, God did that particular action as recorded in Heaven. So, any and all actions of God were certain - or ultimately determined - from God's first conscious moment (if such a moment exists), or if you prefer, the ultimate decisions were made before time began.

• I like the Logos but not the semantics - yanniru - September 29, 2004 - 14:19 UTC
  • May I wade in? (pulling up pantlegs) - carefuluniverse - September 29, 2004 - 14:55 UTC
  • Well, let me ask you - harvey1 - September 29, 2004 - 14:56 UTC
    • I forgot the part about semantics - yanniru - September 29, 2004 - 15:52 UTC
    • Why ask Harv? He is neither God nor 'credentialed' in this - carefuluniverse - September 29, 2004 - 19:49 UTC
      • apologies for leaving out the word "with" - carefuluniverse - September 29, 2004 - 19:51 UTC
    • Dark Energy, a candidate for the Eternal God - yanniru - September 30, 2004 - 12:26 UTC
      • Science is concerned with HOW, not 'what we call it' - carefuluniverse - October 1, 2004 - 16:56 UTC
      • Yes, I agree with you - harvey1 - October 1, 2004 - 20:45 UTC
        • Harv states that Elija "actually did" find God in "small wind" - carefuluniverse - October 1, 2004 - 23:02 UTC
        • Thank You Very Much - yanniru - October 2, 2004 - 18:07 UTC
          • Although Yanniru is not thanking Mike Pearson.... - carefuluniverse - October 2, 2004 - 21:28 UTC