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 Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...The Space and Astronomy Agora Emc2 In A Black Hole Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response ToPosted by TJ on January 28, 2000 01:58:14 UTC

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: : : : TJ ;

: : : : Prove E=mc2 in black hole . Then I will humbly agree i was typing nonsense here. : : : : This is one of the areas in the Universe where the above equation will fail. : : : : Laws of physics are okay on earth since the forces are in smaller magnitudes : : : : But when it comes to Higher Magnitudes E proportionally increases in comparison to mc2 there should also be some other factor evolved to match with E.

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: : : Ok, I'll prove it. The magnitude of any tensor is invariant so We'll define the mass of a particle as the magnitude of its momentum four vector divided by the speed of light : : : m = (gmnPnPm)1/2/c : : : To find how this is related to energy, in a black hole or not, transform to the particles local free fall frame. Because we are in the particle's frame : : : P1 = P2 = P3 = 0 and because we are local to the particle P0 = E0/c and gmn transformed to diag(1, -1, -1, -1). Therefor : : : m = [(1)(E0/c)(E0/c)]1/2/c : : : m = E0/c2 : : : E0 = mc2

: : : : /*****************************************/ : : In black holes what is a particle a atom ,a neutron ,a photon or what

: ZC; Any of the above will do fine.

: :Now : : velocity of light in A black Hole has to be close : : to zero c close to zero.

: c is not the remote coordinate speed of light. It is the locally frame invariant speed of light. It is the same constant everywhere.

: : Then mass in that accumulated area of say 5km is extremely high . : : Energy inside the black hole is exceptionally high. : : Now Please explain me the above equation since there is attractive force which is existing in here because of presumably heavy mass.

: Gravitation isn't a force in the exact same sense as the other forces that are four vectors. Gravitation is space-time geometry gmn Since the space-time geometry was locally transformed to Euclidean(gmn = diag(1, -1,-1,-1)) the fact that there is a presence of gravity does not detract from the local law : E0 = mc2

: : This force is attracting all other energies around it Making itself a huge source ball of energy. To what part of the equation relates to what since you utilized particle theory to explain the above .

: There is no ball of energy. I don't understand what you're asking here.

: : I would rather use a physical entity like heavy atom ,neutron or electrons which undoubtedly have to exist in a Black hole though they are crushed to a extent.

: Fine, let the particle be any of the above. I never said it was crushed. Its just in the hole. In other words within the outer horizon.

: :there is no movement among them.

: That's not true.

: : If nothing moves c has to be zero if c is close to zero then E has to be close to zero. But this is absolutely not since E is proportionately very large.

: c is an invariant, not the remote coordinate speed of light so this is not true.

: I don't see an admission.

TJ: FOR THE SIMPLE EXPLANATION I HAVE NOT CONSIDERED IT AS SPEED OF LIGHT . C HAS TO BE INVARIANT RIGHT IT HAS TO REPRESENT SOME VALUE NOW NOTHING MOVES IN BLACK HOLE NOT EVEN ATOMIC OR SUB ATOMIC LEVEL. ALL ATOMS SO COMPRESSED IF THEY EXIST AS ATOMS THAT IS IN BLACK HOLE. C HAS TO BE CLOSE TO ZERO WHATEVER INVARIANCE YOUR TELLING ME ABOUT. ONLY THING THAT WILL PROVE E=MC2 IS MASS OF A BLACK HOLE MASS OF BLACK HOLE HAS TO VERY VERY LARGE MAGNITUDE . I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME . I WOULD LIKE UNDERSTAND THE FORCES INVOLVED IN BLACK HOLE ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR ENERGY. sO NOW MASS ONLY CANNOT BE SO HIGH TO BRING OUT THE PROPORTIONALITY EQUAL TO E. MY EXPLANATION STILL REMAINS AND SIMPLE RATHER YOURS E IS NOT DIRECTLY EQUAL MC2 IN A BLACK HOLE THERE HAS TO BE SOME OTHER PROPORTIONATELITY FACTOR TOO.

WHEN YOUR DEFINING/PASTING EQUATION PLEASE EXPLAIN EACH FACTOR WITH A POINT OF VIEW THAT OTHER PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.