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 Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...The Space and Astronomy Agora Re: Emc^2 In A Black Hole Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response ToPosted by Zephram Cochrane/">Zephram Cochrane on January 28, 2000 05:41:47 UTC

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: : : : : TJ ;

: : : : : Prove E=mc2 in black hole . Then I will humbly agree i was typing nonsense here. : : : : : This is one of the areas in the Universe where the above equation will fail. : : : : : Laws of physics are okay on earth since the forces are in smaller magnitudes : : : : : But when it comes to Higher Magnitudes E proportionally increases in comparison to mc2 there should also be some other factor evolved to match with E.

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: : : : Ok, I'll prove it. The magnitude of any tensor is invariant so We'll define the mass of a particle as the magnitude of its momentum four vector divided by the speed of light : : : : m = (gmnPnPm)1/2/c : : : : To find how this is related to energy, in a black hole or not, transform to the particles local free fall frame. Because we are in the particle's frame : : : : P1 = P2 = P3 = 0 and because we are local to the particle P0 = E0/c and gmn transformed to diag(1, -1, -1, -1). Therefor : : : : m = [(1)(E0/c)(E0/c)]1/2/c : : : : m = E0/c2 : : : : E0 = mc2

: : : : : : /*****************************************/ : TJ: : FOR THE SIMPLE EXPLANATION I HAVE NOT CONSIDERED IT AS SPEED OF LIGHT . : C HAS TO BE INVARIANT RIGHT IT HAS TO REPRESENT : SOME VALUE NOW NOTHING MOVES IN BLACK HOLE NOT EVEN ATOMIC OR SUB ATOMIC LEVEL. ALL ATOMS SO COMPRESSED IF THEY EXIST AS ATOMS THAT IS IN BLACK HOLE. C HAS TO BE CLOSE TO ZERO WHATEVER INVARIANCE YOUR TELLING ME ABOUT.

None of that is true. While atoms exists as such in a black hole they need not be compressed. We can consider those which are in free fall. The remote coordinate speed of light is NOT c. The value c is the local vacuum speed of light. It is always exactly 299792458 m/s by definition.

: ONLY THING THAT WILL PROVE E=MC2 IS MASS OF A BLACK HOLE MASS OF BLACK HOLE HAS TO VERY VERY LARGE MAGNITUDE .

No, I already proved E0 = mc2 even in a black hole.

:I DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO TELL ME . I WOULD LIKE UNDERSTAND THE FORCES INVOLVED IN BLACK HOLE ARE ALSO RESPONSIBLE FOR ENERGY. sO NOW MASS ONLY CANNOT BE SO HIGH TO BRING OUT THE PROPORTIONALITY EQUAL TO E.

Now your not talking about mass in the hole, you're talking about the mass of the hole. This is a completely different mass. I can prove that to if you wish, but if you didn't understand the proof that E0 = mc2 then you also won't understand the proof that EBH0 = Mc2.

: MY EXPLANATION STILL REMAINS AND SIMPLE RATHER YOURS E IS NOT DIRECTLY EQUAL MC2 IN A BLACK HOLE THERE HAS TO BE SOME OTHER PROPORTIONATELITY FACTOR TOO.

Just because you did not understand my explanation does not mean it was not simple.

: WHEN YOUR DEFINING/PASTING EQUATION PLEASE EXPLAIN EACH FACTOR WITH A POINT OF VIEW THAT OTHER PEOPLE UNDERSTAND. :

Don't accuse me of pasting. If I past I'll leave a reference. Which factor do you need me to explain?

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