"if you strip away all logical statements about something (e.g., the notion of reality), we are left with an undefined description of what's left."

Actually, I think if you strip away all logical statements from something, you are left with nothing. No divine order. Can you name anything that has been proven not to follow logical processes? I can't think of anything. The only place people put irrationality and God is in the unknown. I suppose it's like looking for your car keys in every place you can think of to look in, until you arrive at your couch and say "Well, it MUST be under the cushions, I didn't find them anywhere else" when in fact you accidentally dropped your keys down a storm drain. It's irrationality by default. From my perspective, arguing about the inherent lack of logic in the universe is just pointing at a big black spot in our knowledge and saying "Arrrgh! Thar be tha treasure!"

• I don't think you understand what I'm saying - harvey1 - July 18, 2001 - 19:43 UTC
• Can you name anything that has been proven not to follow logical - yanniru - July 19, 2001 - 12:05 UTC
  • Hold on here, on "incompleteness" of math. - alexander - July 19, 2001 - 19:09 UTC
    • Derivation is proof in math - yanniru - July 20, 2001 - 00:35 UTC
      • Cannot be derived or do not exist? - stormcrow - July 20, 2001 - 02:03 UTC
        • Neither - yanniru - July 22, 2001 - 17:27 UTC