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Posted by nåte on August 20, 1999 04:16:36 UTC

: : : your ultimate purpose is just that; YOUR ultimate purpose. And who is to say what that is besides you. : : : I do not believe there is one ultimate purpose for humanity.

: : So effectively what your eluding is... One makes his/her own destiny, and in so doing that is ones purpose?

: : This is similar to ethical relativism. i.e. What is right or wrong for me, or my culture, is what I or the culture : : find right or wrong in our own eyes.

: : In a sense your response has not dealt with all the elements of humanity. It is easy to use words that : : sound fancy, but when we say that there is no "one" purpose for humanity, this is broad brushing : : aside much of reality.

: : Take for instance moral relativism. It sounds convincing enough to believe, but when reality strikes, : : and these philosophical conjectures come to the test, they fall flat apart like shattered glass. : : When a relativist is asked obviously black and white questions dealing with issues such as, : : torturing babies, or stealing what is not yours, they respond with intellectual insights and philosophical : : jargon that seem to deal with the issues. But when the questions are asked at a more personal : : angle, the individual immediately submits that he/she would oppose such abominations if it were : : to affect themselves on a personal level.

: : If purpose to life is purely individualistic, this can create paradoxes. If purpose for one individual is that : : of striving to attain a status of wealth, fame and sexual pleasure, and then his neighbor next door seeks : : a celibate, humble lifestyle that is self giving and strives to help others, doesn't this present a paradox? : : How can "ultimate purpose" that is individualistic have such polarized differences? Likewise, who are : : these individuals accountable to so as to achieve their sense of "purpose"? i.e. that their purpose has : : been met. IOW, the purpose that they seek has finally been reached?

: : Finally, purpose presupposes plan. IOW, if we have a purpose, it is that purpose that brings about our : : existence. So, the individual that lives a carnal lifestyle is alive and living because this was his/her : : predestined plan of life to thus fulfill the plan of purpose?

: : My friend, God has a plan for your life, my life and all of humanity. If we choose to go our own way : : and live out what we want to do; we can. This is free agency. But because we have a choice, it thus : : infers absolute reality. We are accountable for everything we think and do. God created us for His : : glory, not for ourselves. Because of our sinful nature He, which was without sin, became sin for us. : : It is by this atonement that we have a free gift of everlasting life. It is by grace, through faith that : : we can be saved through Jesus Christ, the son of God.

: : God bless you

: : -nåte

: ::::::::::::: : Sorry, I quite simply do not accept that YOUR God has "plans" for. Frankly, I'm not even interested. I can make my own plans very well thank you.

: Why is it that folks that believe some God is planning their existence also still spend time on earth trying to exercising their own free will?

: This is cantradictory to your own statement.

: If you have no free will, what keeps you from just laying down and dying right now, right on the spot.

: I life without free will and controlled by some other allegedly "higher" power is not a life I'm even vaguely interested in.

: Frankly, any higher power that may have "created" this universe easily has better things to do than worry about controlling or planning my life.

: No way pal, I "ain't" interested. Let Him plan yours, I'll do mine for myself whether you or He approve of that or not, with the re-iteration that I don't even accept your postulation as truth in the first place.

: Peace.

Hello Viper,

You know, I'm glad you pointed out some areas that I didn't make myself clear. I would agree with you in the fact that I wouldn't enjoy my relationship with God if it was bound, or controlled without free agency. I know God would have no use for it as well. This is what sets our relationship with Him so unique. We have the choice and will to choose to serve Him, or ourselves. I don't think it would be a real relationship if that wasn't the case.

But see, this is the case and point I wanted to make. Whether we choose to go our own way, or to submit to our heavenly Father, does in no way void His will for us. Whether we receive Him or reject Him, He is still glorified and His will "will" carry fourth. Yes, he even uses evil to eventually bring glory to His name. We are created by Him, for Him. But in order to have a dynamic and real relationship with Him, there must be free agency alongside his Sovereignty.

God bless you and Peace to you too...

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