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Posted by Eric Clark on October 27, 2003 14:21:02 UTC

RE:>> * I'm shocked that you can say 'great love' and 'holiness of God' in the same sentence that God would tell Saul to kill innocent human beings. You see, this is a real modern problem with religion. *
Actually I believe this is man’s problem with understanding God. This is not a modern problem. For His ways are not our ways, neither are His thoughts our thoughts.
Until the Holy Spirit guides us into the truth, we are left to our own understanding.

RE:>> * It is the same force that has Osama bin Laden and other radicals calling for terrorist actions against innocent people. *
Actually, the force is not the same. Allah is not God. God instructed the nation of Israel in the Old Testament in a way that would be our schoolmaster for today. Do I understand all of God’s ways ? No, but I will try to explain what I have learned of this passage regarding the killing of infants, but please do not jump to conclusions about that nature and character of God without considering that evil was not created by God, but allowed.
Without allowing evil, love could not be real.

RE:>> * Pleaes don't be offended, but I really do not think you have comprehended the Christian religion. *
I am not offended and I pray you will not be either, though the gospel is always an offence to a sinful man who rejects that Jesus Christ is the only way to God by trusting in Him for what He alone could do on the cross at Calvary.
I agree that I have not comprehended the Christian religion, for I follow no religion,
but to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep myself unspotted from the world. An attitude of repentance and heartfelt confessing of my sins to the Lord is my only way to remain unspotted. Do spots sometimes appear ? Yes. Are these spots that appear to be on me or are they just seen by others that look upon me ? I pray you know that every spot has been washed away by the blood of Jesus when you accept Him as your own personal Saviour and come into a close loving personal relationship with Him.

RE:>> * To comprehend Jesus' words you must understand that he directly contradicted Moses, but he contradicted what God supposed wrote:
[ Exodus 20:1 and more … -vs- Matthew 5:38-39 … ]
These words by Jesus were in direct contradiction to the words spoken to Moses in the Torah. You cannot find any reconciliation between these views. One is right and one is wrong. To justify the former, means to condemn the latter. Which words do you choose as divine? *
To answer your latter question before you former conclusion, I believe both.
Your conclusion that there is direst contradiction comes from not rightly dividing the whole of God’s word to us. I have done this often, to my own hurt. I pray that you not be too hasty to accept what your own understanding draws from these by comparing words on the surface. Christians are instructed not to lean on their own understanding and allow the Holy Spirit to guide them. If you wish to call this “religion”, you may, but this is not any sacrament or mantra. It is communicating directly with the only living God, who created heaven and earth. This awesome privilege is given to none but those who have been born again (truly baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ - this reference to body is referring to His spiritual body ). When you receive the circumcision of the heart (circumcision made without hands), you have access to One who can teach you things that you cannot learn in the flesh alone. I do hope that I do not sound prideful in this - for I can tell on no knowledge of truth which I have not first received. I have nothing except it first come from Him whom I love and trust for my salvation.
Yes, I have the Holy Spirit dwelling inside of me, but without the same Faith that saves you and give you everlasting life, you will not believe this. For when you believe in Jesus, we are become members of the same body and can testify one to another that we love one another through Christ Jesus.

RE:>> * I believe the Holy Spirit dwells in those only if they believe that God loves human beings and is not evil and would not order infants to be slaughtered for revenge of wrongs done in a previous era. Frankly, if you believe I Sam. 15:1-2 is God's word, then I see nothing 'holy' in the spirit of your religious faith. If I need Faith, then it looks to me as a faith in evil. I'll have none of it. *
I pray you will not be hasty, but hear me out on this.
If your mind is already made up, I feel I should not speak as it may only harden your heart and close your ears further to the love that God has to offer.
I do pray for you my friend that you not take the evil which is in each of us (even born again Christians) and use it to direct your heart and mind. If you believe that the warring against the flesh stops as soon as you are endwelt buy the Holy Spirit, you are mistaken. For I have found that war against the flesh before I came to a saving faith in Jesus Christ was child’s play in comparison.

RE:>> * If you have to ask then why do you even speak of a Holy Spirit and even mention the word 'faith'?
You lost me a bit here. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit could make your thoughts known to me ?

RE:>> * Until you begin to grasp what holiness means and what love is, you won't likely apprehend how/why these things are not God's word. *
Holiness is set apart for God’s use. Love involves sharing truth, even when that truth may offend human sensibilities. God is God and we are not. If we believe we can come to God on our own terms or that He must not offend our human sensibilities if we are to believe in Him than we display pride before Him. My deepest and most sincere prayer is for us to both continue pursuing this avenue to determine why no man may come unto God except on God’s own terms. He has laid out those terms, and I would ask that you allow me the opportunity to give my view of those terms to you. I mean you no harm or offence, but my believing God’s word is simply a fact, not something that I wish to do to you. If I make it known that I believe God, do I offend ?
I think the offence is fearing that you too must believe Him ?
I pray you know that the greater fear should be in not believing Him, and you allow yourself to learn more of Him, even though you currently do not see some of His actions as just. I do love you, my friend, and I can tell you with certainty that God has a wonderful plan just for you.

RE:>> * I'm afraid Eric that what you have showed in the last two posts is the worst face of religion. It shows a lack of concern for human rights, it is condensending, rude, unloving, and worst of all prideful *

I pray you understand that I do not believe religion has any faces, except manmade.
human rights ? What rights would you ascribe that God has ?
Pride ? This is a fault of mine, and I pray you see that we are not to think that one who is endwelt by His Holy Spirit is left with flesh that has no sin. (Romans 6-8 exhorts further on this.) I ask your forgiveness for the pride that I display or that you perceive.
If you hold this against me, please hold it against me only, not God: for pride is not of God.
Do not let my pride or lusts, which I fall prey to far too often keep us apart.
Please, when you perceive these in me, remind me – please let me know ASAP.

My friend, can and will you tell me --
do you believe or sense that parts of the Bible are truth ?
If you do may I also ask – how do you pick which parts you believe and
which parts you choose to reject ?

This next subject is the real offence - I beg you know I only wish to understand you better, that I might be of some help if ever needed, thus I ask again,
May I presume you reject the part in the Bible about the resurrection of Jesus Christ ?
And the resurrection of those who have placed their trust in Him alone ?

The topic of the age of accountability will likely address part of your concerns regarding the nature and actions of God. “age of accountability” is just terminology. You will not find the verbatim phrase used in the Bible, though it is there.

God bless you Harvey and may the Lord open His ways and life to you.


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