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Posted by Harvey on October 27, 2003 16:39:11 UTC


You are well-intentioned in your defense of every statement uttered in God's name is God speaking, however this undercuts all of the Christian statements made throughout your reply. The scriptures mentioned in I Sam. 15 are just small samplings of the supposed words from God that Christians must and should reject. I think fundamentalists make the error of defending these statements because they think that somehow if these words are fallible, then every statement in the bible is fallible and wrong. This is the mistake made by fundamentalists. In addition, by trying to set-up the bible as if God dictated it I think you in essence are saying that the book is worthy of worship. Understand this, the bible is not to be worshipped. It is a collection of human experiences, some are as divine as humans can experience, and some are so early in our encounter with the divine God that the view is entirely skewed and self-serving (e.g., I Sam 15).

You ask the following questions:

do you believe or sense that parts of the Bible are truth ?

Truth in my view is not accessible to humans in any purest form. Everything that appears to be true is an approximation at best, and this approximation is watered down. The best approximation we have of truth is the Logos, and this Logos reveals truth in a progressive manner over time. It happens according to a spiritual as well as intellectually evolutionary process. The bible records - over a lengthy process - an evolving people of God. I Sam 15 is part of that evolution, but as Paul said, when you are a child you play with childhood things, but once you are an adult you put away childish things. So it is with much of the ancient Hebrew texts. At one time the law of Moses was what the Israelites looked to for a picture of righteousness, but as the Logos revealed aspects of the truth, it was no longer needed, it is to be put away as childish. Hence, many of the things in the bible are valid for learning, but not necessarily applicable on how to live our lives today.

If you do may I also ask how do you pick which parts you believe and which parts you choose to reject ?

As I said, Christians believe in the Holy Spirit. This is the presence of God which leads us to further spiritual understanding and it is what allows us to put away spiritually childish things.

May I presume you reject the part in the Bible about the resurrection of Jesus Christ ?

No, you cannot presume this. I believe that Jesus is alive. The Logos (i.e., the process aspect of God) is not only in the business of leading creation to new truth, the Logos is also in the business of acquiring and forming identities with those things which further define itself. Jesus is the Logos as flesh, and at Jesus' birth, the Logos became Jesus. This process of identity continued throughout the life of Jesus until his death, at which point this identity led to the resurrection of Jesus in that the identity relationship was complete. In fact, we no longer have to speak of the Logos, we can speak of Jesus Christ, Glorified Son of God.

This is the identity relationship that humans should all seek in their life. The way to achieve this identity, is through the salvation process whereby we let Jesus Christ in our lives, and we live a new life. If we submit to God's will, then we too will achieve this identity with the Logos, and we will become co-heirs with Christ in the Kingdom of God.

And the resurrection of those who have placed their trust in Him alone ?

I do absolutely not reject the resurrection and what it means. For as Paul said, if there is no resurrection (i.e., full identity with the Logos), then there is no hope.

God bless you Harvey and may the Lord open His ways and life to you.

You too.

Warm regards, Harv

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