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Re: Fallen Angels Or Risen Apes?

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Posted by Earl :-) on January 7, 2000 04:22:45 UTC

: In reply to the belief that social relativity and evolution are evil. : Ethics are a difficult branch of knowledge and I wont pretend to have mastered it in this post; just a lone atheist's ideas on the subject. Anyhoo, I don't believe either social relativity or evolution to be evil. Here's why.

: 1) Social relativity: : Sociology explains that expressions of deviancy are always present. What is deviancy? It is to differ from what current society deems normal, to the extent that it becomes harmful. The more people threatened by a certain type of behavior, the more dangerous the behavior is. So I'm asserting that ideas of good and evil don't exist outside of a human society. The universe is morally neutral.

: The fundamental axiom of soci is that actions in themselves have no meaning. In order to examine significance in a particular action, it must be gauged by society as a whole. For instance the act of praying, if viewed as an objective scientist who didn't know what praying was, would simply find a person quietly kneeling for a few minutes. Only in relation to a society does the act of praying have any relavance. Thus, it is not the act itself that is important, but what it signifies. Going to church is simply an agreement that some almighty being exists. It's a consensus, a group experience. A form of solidarity. So it would seem that such unification is necessary for society to function. I don't think it is. One might find the same feeling of comradery between strangers at a football game. Unifying factors are everywhere, that's why they call it a society.

: By extension, one might then assume that this leads to a purely subjective view of good and evil. That is what I believe them to be. Acts are are good/evil are labelled by their implications to society. Killing obviously has negative implications to every society. Thus they're met with harsh punishments in every culture. But beyond that, there can be much variation with what certain society deems to be good and evil. These difference is what makes the world such a rich tapestry of culture.

: But what christianity suggests is that there is only one good/evil, independant of the culture. This is meant to be a truth. : This is a harmful idea. It's arguably been the driving force behind imperialism, seeking to destroy the variety of cultures in the world. Gee, native americans look and eat different. Their barbaric and evil! Must convert their evil religion to ours. : This was probably the justification used by european imperialists behind european expansion. : It's an ethnocentric view. Is there only this one way of looking at the world?

: 2) Evolution: : Yes, we and apes came from the same ancestor. All living creatures evolved from simpler forms of life. Evil? : Yup. It's just down right dirty that we have to excrete waste (or take a Language Removed to put it more eloquently), and have dirty naked sex isn't it? Society spends so much time masking our biological urges, so we are as different from animals as possible. "Excuse yourself for burping/farting. It's rude!" : We ARE animals. The only thing that separates us from animals is our brains. That's it. Other animals have developed societies (ape's hierarchal system, lion's coexist in prides, etc. etc.). It's just out of some twist of chance that we're the dominate life forms here. : Evolution explains love (it's just chemicals), life, and lots of other things. Need specific examples? Just ask (but expect a lengthy explanation).

: My believes may seem crude and unrefined, but to me Christainity seems over romanticized, sugar coated view of the world. I'm certain I offended you all (reverse psychology).

:Earl here :-) I would like to clear up a little bit on those comments you made of christians, seems like you're kinda blamin the worlds problems on christianity, I don't know if you mean to to that or not, but when you say the christians that came over here from europe....they came over to escape the persecution that they were receiving there in that part of the world, and the order for us to evangelize came from Christ Jesus, it ain't sumthin we made up all our own to try and go win the world to righteous and salvation,(which is really good news that men don't have to go to hell if they don't want to) that's the hardest thing I've ever done in my life was try to witness to somebody that wasn't saved, (always tried to do it out of love and concern for their soul, not for gain) but I don't think I've ever forced myself on anybody, I've had debates which I don't really like, but sometimes you have to debate to make a point. I know alittle about american indian history, and most of them that I know admit the chiefs who saw Christ after His resurrection and heard His teachings ; passing it on down to them and they believed at first then went off into paganism and were destroyed, but, I ain't read anything in the Bible that says that Christ did that, but the Cherokee sez he did. Sorry for the long sentence. All our basic laws were taken from the ten commandments, God set the rules when he gave them all to Moses, then Christ fulfilled those laws, and all the things that were done in the tabernacle, the offering of animals for sin atonement, Jesus abolished when He died.....he basically took everything that was against us and nailed it to the tree.....Sin still exists as long as this old world stands, until Christ returns. But, anything nasty and dirty is because the commandments said it so, God said it so...all those laws, and I'm not talking about the offerings, and practices now, I'm talking about the commandments and the teachings of Christ...they have everything to do with Loving God with all your heart and loving your neighbor as yourself. That ain't bad!

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