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Re: Historically, The Man With The Bigger Stick Has Been Christian

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Posted by Earl :-) on January 25, 2000 05:08:29 UTC

: : : : "But, anything nasty and dirty is because the commandments said it so, God said it so..." - Earl.

: : : : PHILOSOPHY 101: This directly contradicts logical thinking, and is a well known fallacy in logic..

: : : : You've said that evil is considered "nasty and dirty" essentially because God says so. This means that good and evil exist because God says they exist.

: : : : Now lets suppose that there is a God and he wants us to follow the 10 commandments. You've said that the 10 commandments are made good not because the actions themselves are inherently good, but because God says so. Now hypothetically, since God has this power to cause certain acts to be right/wrong, he has the power to make any action good or evil. What you're saying here is that IF god condoned the murder of babies, that would then be considered good (good/evil is dependent only on God's say so). It's irrelavent whether or not God WOULD do such a thing, it's IF he wanted to he could because God himself defines such things (he's all powerful). : : : : What this statement is really saying is that IF good/evil are made true by God's say so, they would be true no matter what we thought of it. This means that nothing about the action itself makes it inherently good or evil. It's only God's command that makes things good or evil. : : : : Here's an example: : : : : Let's say I defined what is considered short/long hair. It's like saying Elvis has short hair no matter what length his hair is, simply because I've said so (maybe not the greatest example). His hair could be 2 inches or 2 feet, and I'd still say it's short. Here, his length of hair has no reference point. It's not the length of hair that gives its classification here. It's what I say, that makes it long or short. : : : : Make sense?

: : : : So what are the implications of your definition for good and evil?

: : : : 1) God could suddenly change what he meant by the 10 commandments, and send everybody to hell and laugh as everyone writhes in agony, and by your definition it would still be considered good. Why? Because you said it your self, by definition, if God tells you an action is good, then it has to be good regardless of what results from any action. God can do no wrong. : : : : 2) Your definition of good/evil basically states: good is those things that God approves of, and bad is those things God doesn't approve of. So you couldn't say that "God is good", because all this means is that "God approves of himself" or approves of his own actions.

: : : : This definition for good and evil makes no sense. Only when you consider whether or not an action is deem good or evil on the mere basis of it's implications does it make any sense. Murder is bad because it's harmful to members of a society. So is rape, and incest, etc. etc. Actions logically can't be the result of God's say so because that's a logical fallacy.

: : : bzrd here: If God does not decide what is good/evil who does? Man. Which man? Which ever is powerful enough to dictate his will on his fellow man. To find the fallacy in this logic you only have to pick up a history book. WWJD... What would Jesus do? Would Jesus blow up an abortion clinic? Would Jesus oversee an inquisition? Would Jesus send millions of Jews into a gas chamber? Is anyone who performs any of these acts a Christian? No. Janet Reno, US attorney general, made the statement recently that, anyone who thinks that Jesus lives inside of them, or awaits his Second Coming, is a member of a cult. There are a dozen or so concentration camps [mostly out west] capable of holding up to 25000 people. FEEMA has a law on the books that enables them to abridge any and all civil rights in the event a national man-made or natural disaster. There is a law which states that the National Guard can join with UN special forces to exert "lethal" force on certain civil disturbances which involve tax protestors, militias and/or religious cults. There is a world-wide desire for social and economic globalization that, many feel, fundamentalist Christians stand in the way of. Are brother Earl and I evil? : : : --------- : : : If I at all implied that Christians are evil I'm sorry. That was not at all my intent. This string of posts was simply a retort against previous statements that evolution and social relativity were evil. I defend your right to practice whatever religion you like, so of course it isn't evil. : : : I believe that society creates what good and evil is based soley on the impact of certain acts. The more people threatened by a certain act, the better chance it will be seen as a crime, and regarded as evil. Individuals, that are socialized in their societies develop their own moral code based on their own experiences. Individuals decide their own right and wrong, but the state represents a consensus of what good/evil is, thus enforces it. I believe good and evil to be purely subjective. What follows is that good/evil don't exist at all outside of a human society. : : : You're quiet right. Man decides what is right and wrong, individually. Are good and evil acts inherently so, or is it only because of a God that makes it so?

: : : It's inevitable that the man with bigger stick will enforce his own point of view. But this should not be. It should be (and in most societies is) democratic. : : : Ironically, it was european expansion led by capitalism and christianity that led to the trend to increasing globalization that you despise.

: : bzrd: Absolutely no offense taken, the question I posed was of a rhetorical nature. I agree that capitalism [or more specifically, greed ] has led us to globalization. However, greed and true Christianity do not mix; so your's is not an accurate statement. We are all subject to God's Law, regardless whether or not one aknowledges it. It is not for me to judge anyone, though as a Christian, the Word dwells in my heart, and I will speak what I percieve as the Truth as long as I have a breath to take. : -------------- : Aren't christianity and capitalism related? It's undeniable that in nations touched by european trade, christianity immediately followed. The Philipenes (bad speller), Vietnam and parts of south america are examples of this. : All a part of the white man's burden. All the result of imperialism, and an attempt at imposing one world view upon another.

:Earl here..nice to be back after a bout with the flu....reading all the stuff I believe in a lot of your statements you mention Christians, but you gotta rememeber....were the Crusaders Christian? Was it not the European Religious sect that was instigating the inquisition on their own people and christians alike, and hailing them as heretics that believed in the Bible and Jesus Christ? And, put them thru untold tortures and scourgings, and burnings at the stakes, and that many were converted because they saw the hope and faith of those put to death singing praises to God and Jesus Christ even in their death. Thank God for the freedom to worship God here in America ! so far! The way things are going it don't look like were gonna keep it if america don't turn back to God. God sets the boundaries and makes the laws and gives the commandments in His Word, the Holy Bible, which satan has made an all out war against by creating so many versions that nobody can discern exactly what the Bible says. The most accurate and annointed version we have today is still the KJV. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God..if we don't have the Word in our heart, we don't get the faith. My grandma(half cherokee) couldn't read at all, she was illiterate because she had to farm as a girl and couldn't go to school, but God gave her a gift to read the scriptures and understand them. The kjv was translated into the english language by 39 scholars translating and comparing notes for years of extensive study from the Greek textus receptus and the Hebrew scrolls. Two infiltrators were thrown out who were from the Alexandrian Cult who claimed to have the originals that were changed by Alexander. Those 39 scholars were secretly one by one assisinated by the European religious sect for giving the people the Word of God. They had published, republished, reread, restudied, rewrote any and all shades or shadows of definitions and words italicized that held different meanings in our language. The saw the warning at the end of the scripture that said if anyone add to the prophecies of this book that God would add to them the plagues contained in the book, and if anyone took away any of the prophecies of the book that God would take their name out of the book of life". So, they proof read again and compared notes again and out of that came the kjv Holy Bible. They did it with fear and trembling, fear and high respect of God Almighty. One thing God puts above His NAme and that is HIS WORD!

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