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Re: Bright Sun? Too Late. I've Already Burned By Retinas.

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Posted by Beelzebub X on December 16, 1999 18:51:40 UTC

B: Yeah, it's difficult... But I don't think that there is no "family" sense in big cities. TV, radio and internet connect the people more than ever before, nobody can say: "I did not know." An example: Here environmental care is an important theme. The people are urged to work for that (separate garbage, don't throw garbage on the street, buy smaller cars, avoid plastic and big packaging, etc.) The most people adhere to that "rules" although there are only personal disadvantages. But they know that it is for a good cause. That's why I think there is hope...

T: I think any sense of community with all members in a city is essentially illusory. Yes, we have access to more information than ever before, but one could make the argument that this makes us feel disconnected and alienated. I don't know my next door neighboors at all, but can chat with someone living in France. I don't wanna downplay internet communication, but is this real human interaction? It seems that being jacked into the computer is gradually replacing real life human interaction. We seem to favor the fantasy world, creating relationships are low risk and disposable, for convinience. What would be the implications if I just suddenly stopped responding to these posts? Pretty much nothing. The consequences of throwing away a flesh and blood relationship are much more real. Is there any sense of communication on a city subway or bus?

=========== Real human interaction? One could make the argument that this (anonymous) kind of communication is the best one. Here is only the mind important, neither flesh nor blood can throw you off the track. What a person thinks and says that is what the person is and not what he/she looks. ===========

T: In the name of profit, I think such testing is appauling. But I relax those same activities when in regard to learning though. Maybe it's a double standard, especially since I believe we're nothing more than more highly evolved animals with a useful tool (our brains).

B: What!?!? We are nothing more than animals? NOOOOO...I don't want to come into a cage with nasty, stupid chipmunks...snifffff :)=)

T: Oh don't worry, you wont. We've got far less humane destinations for humans these days. Retirement homes for the elderly. Ahhhhh!!!

=========== Pfffff...I'm only afraid of chipmunks! :)=) ===========

T: Cool. We agree.

B: You are not worried to agree with Beelzebub? LOL :))

T: Nope. I'm not worried to agree with good ideas... and I hate to admit that you've got a few of them :o)

B: No no no, my ideas are "evil"! Grrrrrrrrr...and when you will end up in hell then you will put the blame on me! ;o)

T: Oh well. Who cares if I end up in hell? That's just an eternity of sulferous flames to burn at my sensitive flesh. No biggie. Are you really a Christian?

=========== Christian? What? I thought it would be clear. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding. That with the born-again Christian was a Christmas joke! :)=) I said it would be as sure as my name is Beelzebub that I am a Christian now. Not? What I replied to Phil.o.Sofir's "Get to know eachother formally..." is the truth. I never really lie. :)=) ===========

B: No, the ultimate goal is to eliminate the money totally. Money is only necessary when you want to create inequality. But all humans are equal, that's why we don't need money. Everybody will get what he needs. You can go into a supermarket and take what you want (without paying). Utopia?

T: Eliminating money completely is a monumental goal. It's basically what Karl Marx wanted, everyone would control the means of production equally without need for government. Simply "give all you can, and take all you need," I believe was his motto. But again, this is really difficult. Where do you draw the line between want and need? Somehow, the sense of accomplishment alone would have to motivate people to create enough to feed everyone's demand. Somehow, this system would have to solve the problem of scarcity. It's hard to stop people from taking more than they need, greed is difficult to destroy. What if greed was entrenched into our species through evolution?

B: I think this kind of greed is a perversion. Greed is only needful in an emergency-situation. The capitalistic system supports greed - it is based on greed! When you suppress a natural behavior artificially then it perverts. The people can see all the time all that "wonderful" stuff in tv-commercials or they see rich people with big cars. And when they see it then they want and/or need it! But they can not get it because it's too expensive. Small wonder that they become greedy. Short: Advertising and inequality produce greed. Without greed want and need is the same. I think humans are not greedy by nature.

The problem of scarcity? Would we not waste resources by creating luxury stuff and plastic trash then we could feed everyone's demand easily.

T: I think we are selfish by nature. The whole premise behind evolution is selfish... survival. With humans, it's collaborative selfishness (we all work together because we gain more from it). It's ironic that the competitive mechanism of evolution would have produced such a cooperative species. Oh well. Maybe God has a sense of humor. Just look at the platypus :o) =========== What is with the platypus? ===========

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