Back to Home

God & Science Forum Message

Forums: Atm · Astrophotography · Blackholes · Blackholes2 · CCD · Celestron · Domes · Education
Eyepieces · Meade · Misc. · God and Science · SETI · Software · UFO · XEphem
RSS Button

Home | Discussion Forums | God and Science | Post
Login

Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...
The Space and Astronomy Agora
The 12 Steps

Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response To
Posted by Harvey on March 25, 2002 19:45:32 UTC

Dick,

Okay, I'm all for studying the problem. Let me focus on that problem by asking you a few questions.

***What I am talking about is at the very basic level of the problem of "solving a problem". It is a problem which no one ever considers; in fact, I suspect that I may be the first person to even think about considering it. It is the forgone conclusion of everyone that absolutely nothing can be done towards the solving of a problem prior to knowing what the problem is (everyone postpones thinking about solving a problem until they have some idea what the problem is: i.e., they presume nothing can be done if "what the problem is" is unknown). I hold that presumption to be false! You will never be able to understand my thoughts if you cannot consider such a problem.***

Let's say that you were born yesterday at 6:00AM. You woke up and you see all that is before you, your first sensation is that of being aware of yourself (if your first thought is normally to think about where the coffee is, then try to suppress that thought and just think of this simple self-aware sensation). If you would like to see a movie on what that might be like, then I suggest you see the movie "Momento" which came out last year and is now available on DVD.

Now, in this scenario why are you asking about problems? You don't even know what a problem is. All you 'know' is this self-aware sensation.

With this as your only given, tell me step by step (1-??) on how to arrive at equation 1-1 in your paper, and answer how the 'problem' you see arises, answer how it becomes defined so that equation 1.1 is meaningful.

Just to get you started, I'll give you how I think you come to equation 1.1:


(1) Wake up at 6:00AM (you have no clue it is 6:00AM or that you 'woke up')

(2) Light and images are coming at you.

(3) You have a self-aware sensation that you are distinct from the images coming at you.

(4) You begin to analyze this sensation through inductive thought (not deductive thought).

(5) After 5 minutes of inductive analysis you come to the conclusion that you exist and that you are able to influence as well as communicate with the environment around you.

(6) You find in your inductive interaction with the world that the world plays by certain 'rules'. To make it easier for yourself, you call these 'rules' the logical rules of the Universe (everything you are experiencing - including yourself).

(7) Quickly, you grab a paper and pencil that you have inductively found useful to keep track of your thoughts, and you sketch out all the rules of both logic and mathematics known to humanity (you are not aware that this is a difficult task and that you are very smart). You also notice that at some point in your sketching of these rules that the rules are very abstract and have nothing to do with the reason you began the game. You become bored with that and this is why you stopped at 2002 math/logic knowledge (although you could have gone much further in your games).

(8) Upon stopping the games in (7) you realize that there exists a problem between inductive and deductive reasoning. You notice that when you play the games of (7) that you are sure of the answer because you have something which you call proof. But, when you think about the inductive reasoning used in (4) and (5), you become very bothered that your inductive solution to a problem is not certain like the 'proofs' of your games in (7). This bothers you greatly for a few hours.

(9) Eureka! You say to yourself that you will apply the games of (7) from step (1) of your awakening, and instead of the games being meaningless they will give you exactly what you really want to know. What you really want to know is assurance that all of your most reliable inductive conclusions are as reliable as the game proofs that you found in (7) - which by now comprises all the physics up until the 1940's.

(10) After translating the most basic interpretations of (2) into the game formulas of (7), you quickly formulate equation 1.1. Nanoseconds later you arrive at four chapters of equations until finishing at equation 4.31.

(11) You notice that the inductive conclusions (which you labelled 'laws of physics') are deductively concluded from your efforts in (10).

(12) You conclude that physics is tautological and spend the next 40 years trying to convince everyone what you found (but no one understands you).

Now, your turn. Take your red pencil and rewrite the 12 steps.

Warm regards, Harv

Follow Ups:

Login to Post
Additional Information
Google
 
Web www.astronomy.net
DayNightLine
About Astronomy Net | Advertise on Astronomy Net | Contact & Comments | Privacy Policy
Unless otherwise specified, web site content Copyright 1994-2024 John Huggins All Rights Reserved
Forum posts are Copyright their authors as specified in the heading above the post.
"dbHTML," "AstroGuide," "ASTRONOMY.NET" & "VA.NET"
are trademarks of John Huggins