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Don't Make Assumptions About Me

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Posted by Mario Dovalina on July 13, 2001 04:49:20 UTC

"Now we all know that we are dealing with a polytheist and a person that actually is a "closet God believer".

I don't follow your logic here. Because I chose to attack on specific notion of God I am a polytheist? I've been here for a while, Jisbond, and my arguments are not strictly limited to the Christian God. I was just dealing with the newly arriving fundamentalists.

"Shame some people can not be forthright with their reason for being on this forum in the first place since the argument against the existence of God is actually in itself a confirmation that the person arguing has his or her own doubts and is willing to be coached even if by somewhat of an unreasonable argument as presented by the doubter."

There are two reasons that I post here, though they are a bit mutually exclusive. First, I want to see how much meat my arguments hold, see if theists here can debunk them, to help me refine and develop my opinions for more serious conversations. Second, I have a slight hope that someone will come along and prove me wrong. If a theist can systematically explain away the multitudes of problems associated with religion, especially organized religion, I'd be interested. But as far as I can tell no such arguments exist. I have never heard one totally watertight arguments for fundamentalism in my life. If you can justify your beliefs without a veil of omniscience, be my guest.

"In an unlikely event: At the most the believers would have lost nothing if the disbelievers were to have been at all right. There is no harm in believing but there can be much harm in disbelieving."

As far as personal futures regarding an afterlife go, I suppose you are right. But you must understand that if someone becomes religious in spite of the fact that he knows in his heart it to be flawed, he is decieving himself. And a LOT of theists do this, cover up all the doubts with mountains of prayer.

Let's for a moment assume your God does exist despite all my arguments against it and your few arguments for it. Do you really think that I will burn for all eternity because I come to an educated decision (and, I might add, still lead a "good" life) instead of following the teeming mass of followers? What kind of God do you believe in, Jisbond? An intolerant, unthinking bigot?

"Can any one but the closed minded truthfully take risk in disbelieving with out any fear at all?"

Any risk? Oh sure, there's always a risk. There's a risk that God will only reward the Atheists in heaven because they are naturally the most questioning. There's a risk that God has a special hatred for Christians and if I become one I will have an especially cruel fate. There's a risk that God is an evil being who only rewards the villains and punishes the good people.

The only thing that seperates your belief from the ones I just made up is that other people agree with you. That's it. There's no proof, no evidence, no nothing. If I went out today and started a cult that believed in the sacredness of the Wildebeest, five hundred years from now, after my cult became a religion (the only thing seperating a religion from a cult is the number of followers it has, after all), millions of people would believe wildebeests to be sacred only because they were told to. They would live their lives afraid to upset the wildebeests or face eternal damnation. Anyone who questioned the sacredness of the wildebeest would be ridiculed as taking a monumental risk (what if they really ARE holy, eh? You'll be in big trouble then, mister!)

Your entire belief system that you cling to so tightly is based not on your personal experiences and convictions, but someone ELSE'S experiences and convictions. If the Branch Davidians expanded and David Koresh was worshipped as a God, would that make that belief any less ridiculous?

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