: : : Come on people..................we can pontificate forever. And yada,yada,yada until the cows learn to build their own homes. The bottom line is that EVERTHING has design. Which needs a designer.............you can talk about it. But it stops at I AM. aka GOD!!!

: Not trying to offend anyone here, but for some of us it just isn't that simple. You have to keep in mind that just because things seems to be coherent and have 'design' doesn't necessarily mean that they do. The human 'mind' loves to find order and patterns in everything. It all boils down to our own perceptions. I have very little knowledge of physics or of this law or that law. But aren't all laws created by MAN as an attempt to understand things better? Our way of pulling similar facts together into a more comprehensible pattern? People try to find meaning in everything even when there is none. I am an RN and I often hear people say things such as "God must have a reason for me to have survived" or "If it weren't for God's mercy and grace I'd be dead". What about the newborn down the hall who has HIV and probably won't live to see 3. Where was the mercy of God then? Oh, that's right, it was down the other hall healing that 80 year old woman who has already lived a full life. This does not at all seem to me to be indicative of a creator intervening on mans behalf. I perceive it as a tragic turn of events. My mother thinks that everything that happens to her is directly orchestrated by God. In her eyes he opens this door and closes that all to guide her along life's path. Her habit of escaping reality by 'giving it over to God' has her in the position of being a single, moderately obese woman in her 50's who works for minimum wage. Right now she is waiting for God to open the door for her to get another car because her's 'died' a few months ago. I suppose that God will at some point pull through for her as he always has ....he did get her that job making $6.00/hour....he did get her the apartment she has which is an overpriced efficiency in a poor area of town....oh, and he has helped her to loose weight, even thogh it's only the same 10 lbs that she keeps gaining back. She will never be able to retire from work and will probably never find a man who will love her....but hey, she as the Lord :) By the way, why is it that God can only get her credit with car lots who charge way too much interest? Must be that she needs to learn to live on less so she will be prepared if we aren't all raptured away before the tribulation. I really am not trying to be sarcastic or mean, I'm trying to make a point. To me my mom's life is the sad result of blind faith in a power that has not been to concerned for her (if that power exists at all). To her however, her entire life has been structured by God down to the last detail. I would never try to persuade her to believe any different...I would never even tell her of my own doubts. I don't believe that she is emotionally stable enough to function in a Godless world. So her perception of God's divine control and design for her own life has comforted her during her very stressful, chaotic life. I was at one time very much like her and would love to be able to believe that way again...it was indeed VERY comforting. However, belief is not a choice in my opinion, but something that people arrive at when enough evidence has been provided to them. I myself have lost the ability to filter the world through rose colored glasses. I can no longer screen out facts that do not fit into my neat and orderly little universe. Why I lost this ability I don't know...I didn't want to and I fought it tooth and nail...it just happened anyway. I say this because many of you who are Christians on the board tend to believe that people are atheist or agnostic out of choice in order that they might go out and live any way they want. Just lettig you know this is not the case with me....I would pay someone if they could help be believe again....one documented miracle that cannot be explained by science....one correct prophetic word from God for my own life....anything. But heaven still remains silent.

: Cynthia

It took me a long time to come to grips with the emotional pain in my own life. I lost a brother and my mother to cancer. (neuroblastoma and breast cancer respectively) Last spring my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer, she had a lumpectomy/lymph-node dissection. Currently she is under-going chemo. I don't tell you all this to try and get your sympathy; just to let you know. Many "non-beleivers" (I really don't think there are many true atheists) have a problem with rationalizing hard-ships in life with regard to God. My father has the same problem; he is very bitter. Sometimes when faced with a question such as this it is helpful to look at it from a different perspective. If there is no God, then what does our suffering mean? Could anything be more cruel? To the beleiver, this life is just a journey, thus, suffering is accepted as part of God's plan. Suppose there was no suffering; what would be the point of our existence? I am a surgical technician in medium-sized hospital. There are few work settings that breed cynicism faster than a hospital. You are costantly required to preform a balancing act betweem empathy and dis-sociation. Many people separate emotionally from their patients for fear of pain. This leads to cynicism. My faith enables me to stay on the "empathetic side" scince I know that life is just a stage in our spirtual development. I don't hesitate to bond with the patients I come into contact with. Your mother sounds like a sweet lady. I hope my diatribe will be of some help. bzrd