: Go check it out....www.daystarcom.org..it's not what you think........then you'll know who..........isn't that what we are discussing?

Yes I believe we are.

I was just looking for "who" says that in order to declare there is no God you have to be one. I checked out the site above and still couldn't find a reference to that particular statement.

It would not be a view that I share since a man can certainly declare that there is no God, but he would be no more and no less presumptous as the man who delcares there is one. But then as you say, that's whats we're here discussing.

I did notice that on the site there is a reference to Stephen Hawking's theory of the closed universe indicating logic for the existence of God, but I did not notice a reference to his other view of the open universe where the existence of God would not be necessary. (See "A Brief History of Time")

Dr. Hawking is a true agnostic much as myself being neither Theistic not Atheistic. It is moot argument for me since it is utterly unprovable either way. I realize that many folks are not comfortable with that view but I can only say that I am.

I fully concede that there may in fact be a God, but I still don't understand why there needs to be.