i actually agreed with the first part of your post, but then at the end you wrote "One needs no scientific proof to see the obvious.." If you and I don't need it, then why are we interested in it? because it satisfies a hunger for closeness, right?

As for : "...people who can not see the obvious being atheists and materialists. They are not believers." i know some BELIEVERS who can't see some of the obvious.

But what really got me was when you said (nonbelievers)"...are generally liars and try to derail the believers from their faith..." A) i haven't seen any lies in here yet from UNbelievers. and i don't see where they're trying to derail believers - they have very legitimate questions, questions which (frankly) i too had but did not have the opportunity to discuss or felt comfortable enough to REALLLYYY get down to the nitty gritty in otherwise 'polite person-to-person' company. it's ok not to have all the answers without feeling threatened about it. Hey, world, i don't have any real answers probably. I really would suggest you go 'straight to the source' because that's what He's THERE for, his door is open 24/7/eternity, don't shortchange yourself. if you want to know how your friend feels, you ask them directly, right? you don't go to a third person when the second one's right there and then say 'how does he feel'? same thing. it doesn't matter who you are or where you've been. it's not like it's a secret to the one it really matters to, anyway.

so, atri, please, don't put stumbling blocks with mean statements like that. you don't have to do or be or say anything special to have license to have a chat with God. at least, not last time i checked. somebody ask him for me to see if that rule's changed, ok? :)