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Re: Absolute Zero

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Posted by Tön/">Tön on February 9, 1999 02:52:59 UTC

: Thank God I am not buddist :-)

: : ) why do you say that? (not implying anything)

: What is the opposite of us? God. What is the opposite of God? Us. Indeed, the hidden and manifest give birth to each other.

: Let me give an analogy that refutes this logic. If a potter takes some clay and molds and produces a work of art that pleases his soul, is it now that the clay pot is the : opposite of the potter?

: I think we need to keep in perspective that God is in no need of us to exist. His creation that we represent only displays His desire to display His handiwork and, as : you stated, create a relationship with His creation that He so loves.

: What has it proven? That if God is our opposite, then the answer to our existence is answered. If God is our opposite, in the scientific and human perpective, then : there is no way we can can even fathom what he is. BUT we can be assured that without him being our opposite, we will not exist.

: I agree with you partially here, but I think your using a false dichotomy to prove a point. It is true that there is no way we can "fully" understand the "mind" of God, : and that apart from Him we would not be in existence. But to say that the opposite is true is to undermine the deity of God. If God could only exist if we exist, : because He is our opposite, then how did we ever come into existence? ...Chicken or the egg? : This is where I place God beyond our scope of existence; He exists eternally. We are temporal.

: I remember in my very Catholic childhood a question to my mother as she put me to bed. I asked my mother why God created us. She answered, he was : lonely...he needed someone to love. The source to me has always been a simple equation. Everything else seems so tainted by the arrogance of our intellect.

: You know, I would agree. I think that much of our intellect is tainted by arrogance and ego/pride.

: Let me share something to you from the Tao Teh Ching so you can understand, a little bit, my persuation.

: The Tao is like an empty bowl, : Which in being used can never be filled up. : Fathomless, it seems to be the origin of all things. : It blunts all sharp edges, : It unties all tangles, : It harmonizes all lights, : It unites the world into one whole. : Hidden in the deeps, : Yet it seems to exist for ever, : I do not know whose child it is; : It seems to be the common ancestor of all, the father of things.

: It's actually poetry and not philosophy.

: Maybe you could explain further this poetry. I'm not convinced at its persuasion on your life merely by reading it. : ) : Tell me what it means to you.

: God Bless you too. I really enjoy talking with you.

: -nåte

: btw, how old are you? and what do you do for a living?

: I'm 24 and just recently married. : ) : I am a video engineer currently employed at a professional video sales company. : Sales support and service. : I live in the bay area. what about you?

______

You mentioned the buddhist belief on the illusions of life.

Before I proceed I want to make sure that we are at two thoughts on this subject. One belief is on a God who is external, exempted, and absolutely seperate from us. The artist, with all the pretentions and ego, commands his creativity at a whim, even without any useful purpose — an excersise of pure self absorbed frivolity. His desire to create anything is at his own personal volition, unanswerable to anyone. We are one of his projects, one of many and succeptible to the actions of his temperment, his interventions. The other is a God whose very existence is a mere polarity. A God whose emptiness, void, loneliness, is filled by the flowing universe. His existence is reliant on us and vise versa.

The side of the Judeo-Christian, or to most religions, is a God with totally human actions that understanding him is obvious and familiar. The heirarchical logic in the human context is irrefutable and solid. The dualistic aspect of his existence is a very hard point to dispute in any human perspective, God on one side the universe in the other. There is definetly no contradictions to this linear view. It make sense to me.

The other is purely a paradox. It does'nt solve the mysteries of God but instead perpetuates it. It's claim to a monotheistic arrangement to man and God thru the manifestation of a dichotomy seems illogical. But because of this, it crosses the linear perspective of logic and imperceptible barriers of awareness. It make sense to me.

Which point do want to believe?

Are the questions and answers really a matter of human exploration and understanding? Considering the Christian doctrine, this behaviour would be called the rebellion towards God, the catalyst to original sin, the test of faith. In the scientific view it is process, methodololgy, and theory. In the Taoist view it is learning to unlearn's one's learning. Are the assumptions we make on God, existence, and life so final? If so, which perspective is right? Which one is wrong? Do we pit ourselves against each other? Or are we all in the same boat of trying to understand, not solve. How do we start to understand? Does'nt understanding and knowledge first begin from the admittance that "I do not know". Or, did you begin already fulfilled?

Your right it's not supposed to be an indication of who I am. It's only trying to illustrate in eloquent words of poetry my view of the mystery of God.

There are only chickens. Eggs are chickens with no shells, and before chickens there where no chickens. The opposite to potter, no clay. Sure makes sense to me. Maybe I'm nuts?

I am a graphic designer working for a design firm, all of 33 and married for 9 years with 2 daughters. Used to live in the Bay Area but now it's Montreal, Canada.

You have a great knowledge of Astrophysics. Video? Sales? Thought you worked for a SETI or something :-).

Tön

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