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Orders Versus Consciousness And Intelligence

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Posted by Harvey on November 6, 2004 17:20:35 UTC

But you seem to identify God with orders. I would prefer to identify God with some sort of consciousness and /or intelligence.

Well, an order in my view represents everything about Reality that is true of it. In the case of consciousness and intelligence, this is very misleading. Consciousness and intelligence only make up some of the attributes that a Holistic Order must possess (or pinnacle of Reality). For example, we can't eliminate the Causative nature of Reality. We can't eliminate the Logical nature of Reality, etc. So, rather than designate each property each time I refer to it, I just say order. I delineate 'math order', 'logical order', etc, since the topic under discussion is different each time. However, the features in 'Mathematical Order' are very similar to the other attributes of the Holistic Order, it's just that the axioms of the truth tree that emerges from the Holistic Order are specific to mathematics versus specific to logic, etc.

But I think God should include the constantly changing solutions [or theorems] that result from those axioms as the boundary conditions change. God's intelligence and consciousness stems from the orders. It is not an emergent system like physical systems.

I used to think God's Mind was emergent, but now I have come to believe that you cannot have truth without mind, and you cannot have cause without truth, etc. However, I agree with you that many axioms exist and that this consciousness and intelligence is integral to all of the axioms since axioms are language based, and you need intelligence to encompass language.

That would explain the seeming moral evolution of god as revealed in scripture. The intelligence of God can be perfect in the sense that it is completely consistent with the axiom-like orders and laws and yet be variable in time as the environment changes.

Absolutely correct in my opinion. In that sense, God evolves with nature because the orders that pertain to those systems are responding to those particular orders. Hence, people that need a God of brimstone and fire are often in communication with that level of this holistic order. Those who seek a higher understanding of God begin their journey to that lattitude. The analogy of climbing the mountain of God is very pertinent to this concept.

The devilish natural "lower orders" are then understood as a form of 'the end (human intelligence) justifying the means'- still actions of the God. That would explain the so-called horrific acts attributed to God by those who argue that he/she does not exist.

This is very similar to my view. The brutality of the world is guided by a lower order that will eventually be succumbed. In what way I don't know exactly. I think this is what Christianity is all about or maybe it should be...?

Thanks for the inspiration. It allows me to express something that I have always believed in - in a clearer and more meaningful way.

It's an exchange, so I'm benefiting in like matter.

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