Back to Home

God & Science Forum Message

Forums: Atm · Astrophotography · Blackholes · Blackholes2 · CCD · Celestron · Domes · Education
Eyepieces · Meade · Misc. · God and Science · SETI · Software · UFO · XEphem
RSS Button

Home | Discussion Forums | God and Science | Post
Login

Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...
The Space and Astronomy Agora
"draw All Men"

Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics
Posted by Richard Ruquist on October 28, 2003 15:04:43 UTC

John 12:32 "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

I would like to look more closely at this scripture, as it suggests that to be drawn or dragged by Jesus to himself, you only need to be a man. No other conditions are given. I presume women are included in the word men. So the issue is what are the conditions to be drawn by Jesus. Let's look at the context.

John12:[23] And Jesus answered them, "The hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified.
[24] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.
[25] He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
[26] If any one serves me, he must follow me; and where I am, there shall my servant be also; if any one serves me, the Father will honor him.
[27] "Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? `Father, save me from this hour'? No, for this purpose I have come to this hour.
[28] Father, glorify thy name." Then a voice came from heaven, "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."
[29] The crowd standing by heard it and said that it had thundered. Others said, "An angel has spoken to him."
[30] Jesus answered, "This voice has come for your sake, not for mine.
[31] Now is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out;
[32] and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

From the context I see no reason to put any condition on what men will be drawn by him except perhaps the condition Jesus states earlier in this discourse.


After saying that death is necessary , Jesus says:

[25] He who loves his life loses it, and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life.

So it appears that to be drawn by Jesus you must love your life and die.

If you hate your life, you will continue living that hated life forever. (That is what I think it says. Certainly not that you will get eternal life for living a hated life.)

The next verse says that those who serve Jesus will be honored by god. To me this is just an extra benefit above and beyond the benefit of being drawn by Jesus.

So bottomline, Jesus will help all men and women who love life, with additional honor for those who serve him.

Nothing here about condemnation in hell if you do not think Christ died for our sins. It is all about love. Christ affirmed the law of Moses to love thy neighbor and to love thy god. Now he seems to be saying to love yourself and your life. If not, your life will be a living hell forever.

Can't say I like that last promise. I would hope that men get many lives with the hated stuff removed upon each rebirth.

Richard

Follow Ups:

Login to Post
Additional Information
Google
 
Web www.astronomy.net
DayNightLine
About Astronomy Net | Advertise on Astronomy Net | Contact & Comments | Privacy Policy
Unless otherwise specified, web site content Copyright 1994-2018 John Huggins All Rights Reserved
Forum posts are Copyright their authors as specified in the heading above the post.
"dbHTML," "AstroGuide," "ASTRONOMY.NET" & "VA.NET"
are trademarks of John Huggins