Hi David Oakley,

Quoting:

"Studying something changes it, so counting something changes it from organised to chaos? or the other way? or both at the same time? which is chaotic if you think about it."

Well: if it's already RELAIVELY organised; counting it makes it RELATIVELY chaotic;

if it's already RELATIVELY chaotic, counting it makes it RELATIVELY more organised.

As using categories as "bases" for counting (as this groups things under a particulr base):

if "bus" and "vehicle" count each other: now may call this potentially "organised" (an area of stillness where they meet and share common definition ground say).

The chaos of "bus" and "vehicle" flying about has been reduced by them meeting, say.

If that meeting: bus-vehicle IS NOW counted by "red"; potential chaos from order! AS you could have a divergence:

you might find a red bus that is not a red vehicle.

Here one can see the "div" and "curl" of Maxwell's equations.

"Magnetic" is "specification"; "electric" is "generalisation" in my look at physics.

If they were "both at the same time" that would require another category to specify the division of "red bus" from "red vehicle"; say "what you just rode in" might do the job say.

That gave order (stillness) again.

But they could be "both at the same time" (same referent self-reference":

if they give each other free time.

That mutuial freedom may seem "chaotic"; it looks like the joy of freedom!

Thanks!

-Alan