Hi Mark,

"If there is no first principle, then what is there? It may be perhaps more sophisticated than turtles, but seemingly just as ludicrous.
"

My guess is that instead of a first principle, there was a primordial consciousness. My hunch is that waaaay back, that primordial consciousness was very simple, maybe nothing more than the ability to be able to distinguish between something and nothing -- between a 0 and a 1, or a blip and the absence of a blip.

That would be less sophisticated than turtles, but I suppose you could see it as ludicrous. People who think they have seen it (count me as one of them) sometimes describe it as the Cosmic Joke.

It all makes sense to me, though, and from what little I know about Chris Langan's CTMU, he has figured out how it all started and how it all developed from just that sort of starting point. All other accounts I am aware of bear a strong resemblance to the stack of turtles.

I don't know if that's much help to you. It is simply one man's guess and opinion.

Warm regards,

Paul