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Posted by Tim on March 30, 2003 23:48:28 UTC

don't know if this reply has much precision guidance, just my thoughts and observations motivated by the emotion i feel about events such as 911 and the like.

Mike wrote:
"I am trying to examine the evidence you present without emotion clouding me WHILE I am examining it. There is plenty of time for emotion after we look it over."

ok, that is appreciated. then again perhaps listening to our emotions may give us a clue as to where the problems we discuss are.

Tim wrote:
"i think the real villian in this war is Saddam.
he is a hate monger, not unlike Hitler was. religion with him is so high on the list. he uses it to isolate and control the Iraqi people and trys to use it to control the rest of the Arab world while his son rapes and murders."

Mike wrote:
"This may be true -- it has been mentioned quite a bit -- I thought he was rather a Communist.
Have you not heard that Stalin is his hero?"

reminds me more of Hitler, no i don't see him as being much of a communist, again more like a Nazi.
seems i have heard that, funny he looks some what like Stalin, supposed to end the lives of those he doesn't like in a similar fashion also.

Tim wrote:
" he led his nation to attack a relatively harmless and peaceful neighbor Kuwait."

Mike wrote:
"Iraq still believed Kuwait was their Province 19 because at one time it apparently was...until other countries took it away."

you win some you lose some. Hitler felt that way about Austria. some Mexicans probably long after Texas, some Italians probably pine over the lost Roman empire, the English may worry over a lost colony or two, but i'll give you this much Lincoln did want to keep the south part of the US.
the difference is Lincoln succeeded and Lincoln had a moral principle behind his actions.

Tim wrote:
"...he used chemical weapons on his own people."

Mike wrote:
"In Iraq, that tragic event was considered an act of putting down insurrection...brutal and directed against civilians, it is unfortunately comparable to the American bombing of cities in the first Persian Gulf War."

kind of depends on which Iraqi is doing the considering i should suspect.
the comparison is like comparing actions of demons and actions of angels when motives are considered.

"..he uses the word American as if it were a curse word."

Mike wrote:
"This has been poorly publicized. Of course,
you see what we did to their cities in the first war and we also supported sanctions all the years since. I don't like it when folks use the word American as if it were a swear word.
Of course, I don't necessarily use that as a reason to bomb their country."

i can see how he would be disapointed by the fact that we whipped him pretty badly. what bothers me is that such verbage supports the kind of thinking that went on in the minds that organized the flights into the magnificent World Trade Center killing thousands of innocent hard working people.

Tim wrote:
"such a person as this must never have atomic weapon capability."

Mike wrote:
"Sounds okay to me.
Can you reply to what I wrote? I am seeking
precision guidance. I am not sandbagging you
or the American position. But justice is not something we can afford to do with our egos
pumped up. We must continue to consider and
reconsider what we are doing and why so the
force we apply will be applied right
and we won't misapply it too much."

i'm glad we agree that Sadamm should not have nuclear weapon capability.
i agree we must continue to consider and
reconsider what we are doing. unbridled use of force is unwise, unfortunately sometimes bridled force is necessary.

Mike wrote:
"If you believe Iraqis are people just like us
but that they are an oppressed people, it is
probably true they would benefit from being
truly liberated. But I am not sure that is what
the coalition is really doing. We should not
fail to truly liberate them if that is what we
are saying we are doing."

yes they are people just like us.
it is likely that there are ulterior motives along with the motive to disarm Sadamm and liberate the Iraqis, it never hurts to kill two birds with one stone when possible (just hopefully none of the birds are innocent people).

tim

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