Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...
The Space and Astronomy Agora
|Re: Discussing The Bible And God
Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response To
Posted by Beelzebub X on January 2, 2000 18:50:29 UTC
There is God and there is Satan (two mighty creatures).
***If this is so, where are they? In your head!
B: Yeah, when they are not real then they are in our heads and hearts, but that is not a big difference.
*****There is a huge difference, that between reality and non-reality, and if we allow the non-reality to affect itself in reality by acting as if it were reality, then we might as well abandon ourselves to only our emotions and toss all else. The fact is that even today, the world really moves by emotions, there is very little rationality behind the world at this time.
BB: Of course, there is a huge difference between reality and non-reality, but if God is reality or not is not important because you will never know what is true. The bible is true! When there is a real Bible-God then the Bible is Devil’s work because then Satan exists also and only a Satan would write such a book! When God does not exist then men have created the bible and then it’s pure propaganda - and that is also evil!
God said the humankind is not a failure and Satan can not encourage them for evil. Satan said: “Of course, I can do!” and then he began his evil work. That’s the story, isn’t it? Satan tries to corrupt the humans and God puts faith in his creation.
***We encourage ourselves by using supernatural excuses for our thinking and actions.
B: Of course, but that is not important...when the “supernatural excuses” will help us to change the world then it’s ok.
*****It is not okay, it is illusion, people are labeled bad or evil because of it even while there are some of the most compassionate and good hearted folks alive, the leaders of this world use religion as a tool for influence and power.
BB: But when the people already believe in divinely stories then you can not argue with logic. You must hold a mirror up to them. For that you must use their “supernatural” arguments.
God must do nothing, he knows that the humans will not fall. There is no reason to give advices or rules - his creation is a triumph!
***Fall from what? Life is full of natural rules. Triumph over what? Evil? How could there be such a thing if all things were created by god?
B: That all is a Bible story. It’s crazy and contradictory. It’s a ridiculous work of men or the clever work of Satan...but that is the same: The Bible is a book that deserves a consuming fire!
*****I hope it is preserved as an example for future generations to see where we came from and how easily we can be misled, but that it is only a book must understood, as well as other texts.
BB: We worship a book that mostly caused bad, because we think it could be divine. Are we crazy?
But Satan must become active, he wants to prove that the humans are bad.
***Bad according to god or satan? Active? All I see are human actions, are they not responsible?
B: Of course, humans are responsible. They have the power to change the world. When they recognize that the Bible is “bad” then the first step is done!
*****The Bible is not bad, it is taken literally and misused by many to justify inhumane acts. It is put forth as truth, when it is only ideas.
BB: Of course, it’s not totally bad. It’s good and bad like everything...but when we take it as totally good (as the most people) then it becomes bad because then we fail to see the faults in it.
Hmmmm...so what would Satan do? Would he say to the humans something like: “You must be bad!”, “Kill other humans!”, “Make war!”, “Be greedy!”???
***He would sit back and let us destroy ourselves the same way god does.
B: No, not Satan. He wants fun...ha ha...and he is a funny guy!
*****If God was real, could you say it was any different?
BB: A God would never play games! (ohhhhhhhh games...I love games...thank goodness that I’m not a God...LOL)
No, certainly not! The humans would see that this is not good for them and they would revolt. Yeah, Satan would not be so stupid, he would do something more clever! Not?
Hmmmmmm...what would a Satan do to corrupt the humankind? Surely he would use a trick...he would confuse them and lead them astray. I bet, he would have written the Bible if he could! That is the best was to cause bad!
***So it is the bible that gets the blame and not ourselves for misusing it? Its just a book!
B: Yes, just a book full with words...and a simple word can destroy it’s power, that’s our chance... It’s our choice it’s our blame!
*****Blame is not the answer I seek, only to find as much truth of reality as possible before i die.
BB: Then you will find nothing! Blame and pain is the truth of reality!
Could it be that Satan is so clever? Could it be that Satan has written the Bible? When he did that then he did a very good job, didn’t he?
***From a mans point of view, I find that gender steriotyping offensive, have you verified "his" physical characteristics? Boobs have been known to save and/or destroy entire nations! They are a reminder of things a little lower from eye level.
B: Hmmm...I don’t know, but I thought the Bible says Satan is a male. Not important...or?
*****It is important when viewed as being written by men in a time when women had nearly no freedom of expressing thier own views about life.
BB: Perhaps that’s why Satan is a male?
The Bible has changed the world but never in a good way.
***The bible opened the way to science, has given people hope, and compassion, giving of themselves.
B: NO! The Bible is obstructive to the science! Hope? No, only terror and pain!
*****Behind many of those books were the ideas and beliefs of men, which were compiled and altered to suit certain mens needs for a new kind of religious control. The compilation was purposefully done, who got to chose what went into the comilation? There were thousands of variations and totally diferent ideas, but they were tailered as much as possible at that time to limit contradictions and support a main view.
BB: But the religious books wants to stop the thinking. They say: Stop to think and search, here is all you must know!
The Bible is the reason for discriminations, perversions, inquisition, intolerance, crusades, etc. etc. etc. (has the Bible ever caused something good?)
***The bible and the many other religious texts in this world eventually gave us something to question, there never would have been athiesm without them. I don't know what there would have been, but it could have been worse! Here we sit, talking freely about the existance of such things, it took a long time and many have (and will) suffer, but it is a necissary adaptation in our progression. Alternatives to religion are here to stay, and we have only begun to explore.
B: Without the religious texts we would take more care of the living humans than of the dead. The “real” world would be better because we would not waste our time and power by worshipping “ghosts”!
*****Astrology actually preceded textual religion, it is all ideas from the times, it was necissary to get to the point we are at now, no one knows what we would be like if there were never any religion, and it would probably been impossible for us to make the transition to science, it gave us something to work toward proving or disproving...
BB: Astrology? That’s esoteric! That is like religion!
A good God wouldn’t have written such an important book that nobody really understands and that causes so much sorrow.
***No one really understands Shakespeare...
B: Fortunately his books are not very important!
*****It is important, it is a history of ideas of the minds of men who questioned, who tried to break the molds of societal chains. To place superior importance on the bible is only acknowlaging the effects it has had on human beings, not the importance of the truth it contains, although there are a few great ideas in it, there are also some bad ones too.
BB: But Shakespeare’s books are only entertainment! They use them for laughing and crying and not as an excuse for terror!
A supernatural intelligence must know what will happen...
***"Supernatural" might be an alien intellignce that to us would seen almighty, but would have its limitations as all things do.
B: Yeah, but even a limited supernatural intelligence must have known what a Bible would cause.
*****I did not mean that the intelligence had written or knew about the bible or to say that we have been visited, not that this is so far fetched. I only wanted to demonstrate that being much more advanced than ourselves might be seen as "supernatural" in that they might be able to perform what we would think are powerful miracals.
BB: Yeah ok, a supernatural creature must not be a God or a God must only be supernatural and not all-mighty...I don’t know...but the (true) Bible-God is all-mighty.
and Satan knew it! He wrote the Bible and the humans stopped to think - they began to believe. They did terrible things in the name of the good! They stopped to look at the real world around - they began to worship a material, “crazy” book and tried to see God in it... Could it be that Beelzebub is an angel? Could it be that the Bible is Devils work?
***Hey Bezz, throw it right back at me will ya? I just want to argue and I've seen you are good at it. :)
B: Hmmmmm... is Beelzebub an angel???
*****Of darkness or of light? Trick question.
BB: When the Bible is Devil’s work then Beelzebub is probably an angel of light! The question is: Is the Bible Devil’s work?
Unless otherwise specified, web site content Copyright 1994-2023 John Huggins All Rights Reserved
Forum posts are Copyright their authors as specified in the heading above the post.
"dbHTML," "AstroGuide," "ASTRONOMY.NET" & "VA.NET"
are trademarks of John Huggins