: I feel obliged to clarify some misunderstandings re: the Apocalypse as foretold in the books of Daniel and Revelation [Apocalypse in the Catholic Bible]. All indications are that we live in the "latter days" as so often referred to in the Bible. The Old Testament prophet Daniel interpreted King Nebuchadnezzar's [sp?] dream to be symbolic of a series of rulers over Babylon from Nebuchadezzar through the Meades and Persions, Greek and finally, the Roman Empire. The fall of the Roman Empire was to be proceeded by a revived Roman Empire that was to come about near the "end of days". In our time, the revived Roman Empire is represented by the European Union. Shortly after the Rapture, the antichrist will come onto the world scene, he will [at first] be a man of peace. He will sign a 7 yr peace treaty between Israel and the Arab nations. The world will be enamored with this man. He will be the head of the one-world government, first as a political leader, then around 31/2 yrs into the 7yr peace treaty he will desecrate the Temple Mount in Jerusalem by declaring himself to be God. He will require that all people bear his mark [the Mark of the Beast] 666 that will be part of a bar-code that will be inbedded just under the skin of either the forehead or right hand. These events occur in what is referred to as "The Tribulation" by biblical literalists. The Tribulation culminates at the "Battle of Armageddon" when the nations of Gog and Magog [present day Russia] and a "great army from the East" [China?] converge on the plain of Meggedo with the armies of the antichrist in a battle that will end all battles. Christ left this world as the "Lamb of Bethlehem", He will come back as "The Lion of Juda" with His army of Saints [I will be there!] and defeat the antichrist. After this Jesus will reign on Earth for 1000 yrs over all nations and peoples, there will be no more war, disease, famine, sorrow or sin. I know some of you think I am suffering from delusions or am some kind of fanatic [actually the second part is true]. Let's put it this way; if what I say is the truth, then this is the most important few paragraphs most of you have ever read. Prudence dictates that one prepares himself for the worst; if this is just bunch of baloney then so be it, just do some research for yourselves, if you don't beleive it then save it in the back of your minds for when the day comes, it could save your immortal soul. : ********* : I'll be as concise as I can. Using (attempted-semi)deductive reasoning, I'll try to prove that God (or the God you describe) can't exist (... and I can picture you laughing right now), simply by the definition you've provided. : To do this, I'll resort to a little Philosphy 101. So here it is...

: -God is all powerful : -God must/will defeat the antichrist in a most violent and spectacular manner, causing much suffering to many of those involved : -An all powerful God could/would defeat the antichrist without such bloodshed : -God will nonetheless destroy the world in the manner described in the bible : _______________________________ : -God isn't all powerful (violent is the only way he can do it) or, : -God will not destroy the world in a bloody battle (God is different from that described in the bible) or, : Both.

: Nothing new here, basically a rehash of Phil's post. : But if you reject this argument, you must reject one or all of the three premises.

: The only way I can think of that you could do this (without rejecting christianity), is to explain WHY an all powerful God would go through all this trouble over something that should be relatively easy for an all powerful being (destroying satan, afterall, he created him at the wave of a hand). Why will the enormous suffering that inevitably befalls humanity, necessary?

bzrd here: I find no fault with your reasoning; but your reasoning is not based on scripture. God is not going to destroy the world. Satan was defeated at the Cross. Those that miss the Rapture can still find salvation. Do you remember the song "When the Saints Come Marching In"? That song's title refers to the Tribulation Saints that will be martyred during the 7yr period between the Rapture and the Battle of Armaggedon; they will enter into Heaven as stragglers in a race. The only people left at the last battle will be satan and those hapless souls who rebelled agianst God till the end and those who wear the mark of the beast. The main reason I posted this [aside from enjoying a good argument] was to prepare you and whoever else is reading for what is to come. Scripture says that in the last days there will be earthquakes in diverse places, famine, wars and rumors of wars, knowledge will increase, there will be much running to and fro, strange signs in the heavens, men will be in love with themselves, it is all there. Perhaps this is all some kind of cosmic accident. Maybe I'm paranoid. If one were totally objective about the matter it would at least bare looking into. Which brings me to my point. You are a bright young-man, while you are on Christmas break try reading "From Daniel to Doomsday" by John Hagee, or "The End of the Days" by Arthur E. Bloomfield [can be found in any Christian bookstore] and decide for yourself. You can try reading the books of Daniel, Ezekiel or any of the New Testament [esp Revelation or Apocalypse] also. If this is all a hoax you can still add it to your intellectual armamentarium.