) You misrepresent someone's point of view and then debate with the phantom you created.
Whose views have I misrepresented, Mike? Yours? Stormcrows? The Emperor's? K23uiospso's? Cliff is a real person with his own views of the bible. I don't remember debating him recently. Can you prove otherwise. Cliff is a person who has beliefs just like yourself. You are lacking imagination if you believe otherwise.
2) You aren't talking with the folks you're supposedly trying to convince.
Really, I thought everyone read the posts in here. Cliff is trying to convey his postion to the forum just as you are. Cliff, I don't think, isn't trying to convince anybody. He is merely telling people his postion. If you can't respect that then it is not his fault.
3) You're making some of your allies mad.
Who are my allies? Stormcrow? Harv? Yanniru? I never thought I had any "allies" to begin with. Cliff is giving his opinions, and if they don't like that then they can take it up with Cliff in a post. My guess is that they are considering the source and taking it for what it is.
4) You identify the weak point of the other side, and then just beat it to death. That's okay in debate but not scientific debate...you're not getting at any truth beyond the point you made the first time.
Maybe the other side has no "strong" point and Cliff is merely stating the other sides unified views. I don't believe that, but it is a viable option. Who said Cliff was trying to be scientific? I think Cliff would admit that he has no use for science or scientific debate. He is arguing creationism, which as we have already stated is unscientific by definition. In Cliff's eyes he is stating the truth, don't you think? What else do you expect him to say? He is a simple man with simple views. Do you really expect people to believe that Cliff could be otherwise? Isn't it possible that Cliff represents a certain segment of the population that has no use for scientific debate or reasoning? Haven't you ever encountered such people in your travels. God knows I have.
"It's about pulling your head out of your Language Removed and thinking instead of spewing cliche's."
Thanks for coming out of your little dark room and gracing the forum with those enlightened words. I understand you are trying to get a rise out of me and I respect that. The fact of the matter is that I have a point of view that differs from yours. I truly think you are a funny and witty guy with loads of experience and intellect. But to be honest, you are extremely sanctimonious and self-righteous. You are quite full of yourself and it is very unbecoming. As I have said before, I do respect you for the role you play in the forum - but you are way out of bounds with what you think my intentions are regarding the Cliff personality.