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You Can Never Reach Infinity Via A Finite Process

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Posted by Harvey on January 25, 2002 15:29:18 UTC

Richard,

***To me it seems logical that if universes are born in black holes, lets say black holes of a certain kind, then universes that are finetuned to produce a maximum of that kind of black hole will eventually predominate.***

The Multiverse either was always existing or it came into existence. If string theory dictates the existence of a Multiverse, then it would do so at a finite time (interactions of stuff) in the past, correct? Assuming string theory didn't dictate the existence of an infinite collection of universes ad hoc, then a finite amount of interactions cannot produce an infinite number of universes. So, if string theory 'existed', caused universes with black holes to emerge, and certain universes with a predominant characteristic at being able to produce more black holes than the competing universes would predominate. However, there wouldn't be an infinite collection - just a finite number where universes ideally suited for black hole production would predominate (i.e., had the greatest number of offspring universes producing black holes). In that sense, Smolin's hypothesis is sensible.

***Whether string theory is true or not, and whether string theory correctly predicts that black holes produce new universes, are separate questions; and I do not understand mixing the questions up.***

Smolin's hypothesis answers some of the fine-tuning questions. The more fundamental questions are why the laws of string theory (or some other fundamental theory) are able to give birth to universes with black holes. Granted, we don't require as much of a fine-tuned universe to start with to have black holes, but you need a fairly fine-tuned starting collection of universes to have enough variety of black holes so that these universes can produce more black holes. However, if string theory (or some other TOE) already produces universes with various varieties to start with, then why do we need to complicate this further by suggesting that black holes create even more universes?

Now, maybe, string theory doesn't create an initial lot of universes, but rather an initial lot of black holes, but a black hole universe is still a universe. Why not then just say that one of the black holes that string theory got started was the one that gave birth to our universe and leave it at that? Why say that black holes in our universe continue to give birth to universes (especially since there's no evidence for that)? If string theory (or some other TOE) is rich enough to create black hole universes with varieties in the laws governing the black holes (and hence the laws of universes that can pop out of them), then why not just say that it is so rich that string theory can produce a black hole just so to produce our universe?

***So I see the fine tuning in Smolin's unproven model as a math consequence. Do you see something more fundamental at work given Smolin's model? Or are you refering to a different model?***

If string theory is really the basis for black hole universes, then what we really need to understand is why multiple black holes (with various properties) emerge from string theory, why is it that we don't see these other black holes from inside our universe, and how is it that the different universes are separated from each other (i.e., boundries between universes), why is string theory able to produce universes, what makes string theory true (versus some other theory), etc. The Smolin idea of black holes going on to produce more universes is redundant. If string theory can produce black holes that cause universes, then why can't it be rich enough just to cause the black hole that caused the universe we see?

Warm regards, Harv

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