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To Mario: Building On The Foundations

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Posted by Harvey on January 12, 2002 23:11:11 UTC

Mario,

***I disagree with Alex in the issue of the Theory of Everything. I would be quite suprised if there was no equation or principle linking all this together. Also, I think Alex hasn't provided an adequate argument against your cosmic order, which I strongly suspect exists. (ie your "the first link cannot bring itself into being" argument.)***

Since you suspect a cosmic order, I'm wondering exactly where you remain skeptical. Do agree that a cosmic order would be responsible for the 'just so' physics? How could a cosmic order be responsible for something so intricate unless it represented something 'intelligent'? Also, the design shown in physics equations favors the emergence of intelligence in the universe. If this was not intentional then why suspect a cosmic order?

***I think there is a lot of evidence and rationale which supports the foundations for your belief system, however I do not link this foundation with theism in any way. As I said, I agree with you up until this point, but then you make a wild variety of unsubstantiated claims, and I haven't seen you provide any defense for them (I haven't seen it, maybe I've missed it.) I.e. God's plan for the universe, the Unifying Principle as a conscious being and not just another dead natural process, etc. What's so important about sentience in the Cosmos? There's a damn small amount of it here. I think it's pretty presumtuous to project our own personal qualities on the universe around us. It seems far, far, to convenient.

In order for a cosmic order to be consistent, we shouldn't take some deist approaches by saying the cosmic order worked for the start of the universe but somehow stopped working after it all got going. That wouldn't make sense.

In addition, we don't want to limit the cosmic order to just the overall design of the universe, since that also doesn't make sense. The universe involves too many systems that are interrelated. Can we agree that if there is a cosmic order that the ordering processes that it influences would be present in any and every system in the Cosmos? In other words, this cosmic order would be just as apparent in your life as it is on some rock floating around Alpha Centuri.

Maybe you can tell me exactly where we depart in our views so that I can more specifically gear my response?

Warm regards, Harv

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