: : : Hello all.

: : : My physics is rather, how you say... ah yes... bad.

: : : Doesn't the 2nd law of thermodynamics say something about the rise in entropy with every chemical reaction that takes place or something? This means that in any spontaneous rxn, energy is lost and an increase in randomness results. : : : Bzrd, : : : I've read some of your posts, and you keep mentioning how this law is detrimental somehow, and that it's actually a curse put before us from God. But doesn't the universe need this law to function? : : : You also mention something about no new information being added in a mutation (we're de-evolving), which is evidence of a divine being. You also cited the increase in cancer and disease to support your claim.

: : : It don't think your conclusion follows. As I've said before, the rise in cancer is not a result of "de-evolution" as you put it, but more attributable to 2 other things (at the very least): : : : 1) modern medicine: This allows us to live long after the age of reproduction. For example, insulin treatment has seen to it that people with diabetes no longer die at early ages, they live long enough to reproduce, passing on their maladities to their children. Hence a rise in such afflictions would be expected to increase over time. : : : 2) envirnomental pollution: all the toxic waste large corporations are dumping on to the earth, high automobile use, etc. has suceeded in gradually making the earth a decrepit dung heap (no wait, bad analogy. Dung actually acts as a fertilizer). It's no wonder an increase in such disease is found. And might I add, these two factors are directly correlated. For instance, areas where high levels of human sewage (contaning female hormones from urination, or whatever) are dumped into lakes where fish live, there is seen to be a startling rise in hermaphrodite fish. But fish living in clean lakes find no such effects. That's just one example.

: : : If humans are suffering from more diseases, that's our own fault. Don't blame the 2nd law of thermodynamics. : : : Furthermore, if life were de-evolving, and given the earth is rather... how you say... old. Then everything should have de-evolved to the level of bacteria by now.

: : bzrd here: The Second Law is definetly part of the universe. I'm not sure it is required for it's existence, however, it wouldn't matter because in my veiw it did not exist prior to the "fall from grace" by Adam. As for environmental factors contributing to disease, (though pollution of the environment can be considered a form of entropy) I could'nt agree more. However, the presence of carcinogens (for ex.) cannot be said to be the lone factor in disease, for if I'm correct, they would only serve to exacerbate the effects of dis-information on the human phenotype. Finally, you can say we would de-evolve to bacteria only if one assumes that we evolved from bacteria, there is no evidence to support this. I would say, if life is de-evolving, how can the earth be that old? You guys need to learn to ask the right questions:)

: : Tenacious: : If humans did not evolve from single celled organisms, then from what did humans evolve, if at all. I'm sure you're aware that chimps possess over 90% of the genetic material found in humans. The physical and developmental simularities are undeniable. At about age 3, a human chimp and a human infant exhibit development that is almost equal in rate. : I understand that creationists acknowledge that micro evolution exists, but not macro evolution. bzrd here: Humans have evolved from other humans my friend. They have done DNA studies with Neanderthal man and found that we could not have "evolved" from them due to genetic dissimularities. What they failed to consider is, that over time the genome deteriates from the introduction of mutations, also, natural selection will increase specialization of the phenotype-caucasion, negro, asian etc., phenotypes. They have found Neanderthal fossils with their arms crossed over their chests and with evidence of pollen, these people were human beings. Also, DNA studies of their enzyme systems show that they operated more efficiently, they had stronger teeth enamel, stronger bones and were quite possibly more intelligent than us. Regarding macro and micro-evolution: Darwin based his general theory of evolution on basis the observation of special evolution. That is, variation over time, of a given species. There is no substantial evidence for the general theory of evolution. However, the evidence is rather easily accomodated by the Genensis account of creation, when God created "kinds" of life. "Kinds" being synomonous with the lower taxonomic levels.