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Re: Pls Read This For Clarification

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Posted by Nick Mostek/">Nick Mostek on July 24, 1998 15:54:01 UTC

: Specially Dedicated To Mr Nick Mostek,

- Let's dispence with the "attitudes" and get down to the facts, shall we?

: Let me just repeat the main aim of my message; that the human mind has limitations and these limitations will remain so long as he is called a HUMAN. The simple evidence is that he keeps proposing theories which are subjected to much disagreement among his fellow humans. Why on earth would that intelligence be limited? Because there has to be a Creator who wants so!!!

- This question is valid, and an important one. But your conclusion is simply not the most logical answer, if logical at all. If we were to look at what really limits human beings intelligence, we would find that we have severe physical limitations, such as memory loss, slow rememberance, and a mysterious connection between feelings and memories that can sometimes inhibit them. But as hard as we might look, we would only find (or have found so far) only physical limitations, NOT strictly divine barriers. For all we know, we are the sum of our parts, until proven otherwise. And those parts are suseptable to phsyical law. - So the question then becomes "What caused those laws? Where did they come from?" This is a much better question. We can, again, go back to the "Because God had to make them" answer, and once again we live by a God of the Gaps. Or, we can search, unbiased, for some sort of answer, and obtain the knowledge ourselves. Maybe we'll come back and prove it had to be God (Allah), maybe we won't.

:Thirdly, I guess you have made the biggest blunder in your life by saying that "Many historical texts have made blind guesses at physical phenomena and guessed "right" under the "right" interpretation". I would appreciate if you read the following EXACT translation of a verse from that "so-called historical text"

: "And each (the suns, the moons and the planets) moves in its own orbits"

: This does not need any interpretation by an astronomer to make it guess right. It is from a historical text written 1400 years ago!!! Please do extra research in these texts before making blatant remarks about them. Well that just pronounces how limited the human mind can be!!

- I'll forgoe any offense that you incurred here to get at the point. Your earlier message (the first one) was quite unclear, and this was the same thought a friend of mine had. So I took a stab in the dark. Forgive me for any assumptions about what you were trying to say. Now, as for this verse, I realised that it is from the Qur'an, and that the religion you speak highly of is Islam. Indeed, Islam is an interesting religion. Realistically, however, it is quite young compared to other major faiths. In your first letter, you stated that the Qur'an speaks of the orbits of planets and the Big Bang, which could not have been known at the time. The fact that the planets had their own orbits was actually dicoverd by Hipparchus and Pythagoras in about 400-200BC, and later expanded upon by Ptolomy in 200 AD. All this is hundreds of years before those sections of the Koran were written. And even then, in all my study of the Koran (which isn't a whole lot truthfully), I never ran into a description of the planets-- only the moon and sun-- and the sun in your own quote has its own orbit (geocentric), which is false. A divinely inspired passage would not be mistaken like this, and the connection between Arabic raids on the ancient Greeks bring to my mind possible ways of coming across astronomical material. As for the "Big Bang" quote, and only one quote, that makes brief mention of the heaven and earth being one. The Qur'an is extremely hard to take literally at any time, because it is so cryptic. It is always taught within a "context of interpretation", otherwise it holds little meaning (like Revelation of the Bible). It's not hard to find a vauge message like this to be interpreted in such a way, along with other claims made about "scientific justification" such as embryology, where the Qur'an is quite wrong on it's time table proposed by Muhammad.

- These are the conclusions I've come across in a very remedial search into Islam. I may be wrong on some points, but these stood out with incredible contrast from what is being told and taught. I was also suprised at some of the feeling towards "westerners" who are "incapable of understanding Islam and Allah". It's tough to dispute without someone who will not take an unbiased look at the facts, so I hope for goodness sake that these sentiment is not widely shared.

- And I hope, for goodness sake, that you are talking about Islam! :)

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