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Re: My Tenacious Friend

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Posted by Greg Armel/">Greg Armel on October 3, 1999 00:28:58 UTC

tenacious: Glad to see that I'm not so despised as I thought. Thanx man. I still disagree, but due to the fact that I just broke my arm the other day, typing has become a tedious chore. OOOWWW Craaaaaaap! Sorry.

Greg: You have every right to disagree, that is what gives Free-Will the ability to explore all the possibilities. I'm sorry to hear about your broken arm. Ow.

tenacious: You still seem to be assuming that everything has a purpose, which isn't a good approach because that seems to be the premise that you're trying to convince me of. Sure an exploding star is somewhat ordered, but does order presuppose purpose by an allpowerful being? Furthermore, life does not strive for a more improved view. That just seems to be a happy side effect. All animals are trying simply to survive and pass on their genes. That's life's ONLY goal. Even we humans have an unquenchable thirst for knowledge only because evolutionary wise, of all the early humans, only those that had that need to understand more about their frightening environment, became better hunters and survived. We are descendence of these Hanna Barbara pioneers. Hence I still insist, the universe is not perfectly ordered, and even if it was isn't suggestive of a God. And even from that premise (universe is ordered), it certainly doesn't follow that there's an all powerful and all loving being out there that constantly intervenes in our lives. Any oh yes, I agree we are slime balls. Did I say risen apes? What the heck was I thinking! 'Till later Grego! Love to hear from you.

Greg: My tenacious Friend, I am not trying to convince you of anything as much as I am just expressing my views on the subject we are discussing as I perceive it to Be. God Created the Universe in the instant of the Big-Bang. In the first second of that Creation, He Created the first four Laws of Physics, from which all the rest of the Laws of Physics, and all the rest of the Universe evolved. From that moment forward, Everything In Creation can be perceived as having evolved from the moments that preceded them, so there is no way that I can convince you of God's involvement even if I were to try. However, the fact that Creation, and the chaotic aspect of Creation is without error, is indicative of intelligent design. How else can the non-theist explain a Universe that is based entirely on random occurance, that is without error over a Fifteen Plus Billion Year Period? Does random occurance never produce error? So excuse me if I perceive the order of the Universe as, in fact, very indicative of an intelligence behind its Creation! And God doesn't intervene in our daily lives, that is what Free-Will is about. We are essentially on our own. There is a reason why God approves of it so. Since you perceive the difference between objective and subjective reality, maybe you can perceive this reason. If you were God, how might you come to appreciate your subjective view, objectively? If you Created Life with Free-Will, enveloped in your view, and they accepted that view as their own, might that not offer you an objective verification of the validity of your view? How else might you conceive of God realizing an Objective verification of His View?

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