At http://www.astronomy.net/forums/god/messages/31984.shtml, Lukas wrote:
Here i have on (probably insolvabe) question:
If the god does exist , did it creat the Universe,
or the universe create God ?
Bible says the God did , but who can prove it is
Science can help; maybe even theology can help. Let's go slow in thought and see if that helps.
I would not argue over simple responsibility just now, since responsibility proceeds from reckoning a detailed functional understanding of the matter at hand and such is not in evidence.
What is our reason for asking? Even though a sense of purpose can help us devise
a functionally invalid rhetorical device in such matters,
purpose may also provide a goal for an honest, valid, comprehensively functional answer.
Since all thinking relies on one person to actually think and cannot occur between two or more non-thinking persons who simply come to an agreement early, let us refer to the asker as "one."
Various reasons for asking may include:
1) One has enough good health and interest to simply want to find the ways, truths and beauties of existence. ANY of the parties having the other reasons for inquiry may find their greatest treasure through pursuing this purpose, since temporary purposes will be less likely to distract and distort the information being received.
2) One is troubled and wishes to find the way back to paradise in mind.
3) One is troubled and wishes to conceal it by
4) One is currently deprived of resources and wants to devise a strategy for obtaining resources by means of ethical leverage.
5) One is currently wealthy and wants to devise
a strategy for either keeping a good peace for the purpose of continued valid commerce, or alternately, bamboozling others into accepting current conditions as fixed and divinely ordained -- thus saving a lot of trouble
which would otherwise have to be spent for arms and bribes.
and there's a 6)th of which I have learned is true for chimpanzees and many humans including CBS News:
6) One has more than a fetish for certain
cosmetic traits (color and shape of human forms) -- one is obsessed with favoring some cosmetic traits ahead of any other criteria. In other words they have "affirmative action" for persons whose appearance is favored whether they meet other criteria or not.
So Lukas, what do you observe about the functional
integrity of all existence? And how exactly does It All function?