Hi Harv,

This is unbelievable! We agree on all four points. Yes, I would love to convince the webmaster to start a forum which would not interest the fanatics but I wouldn't exactly say that what we are talking about has nothing to do with either 'God or Science'. Both of those concepts are thought of by most people as part of "Ultimate Reality". Certainly you cannot outlaw such "things" a-priori!

With regard to your cavils on point 4, I would agree 100%. What is important about statement #4 is that you and I possess mental images of the universe sufficiently alike that the concept of past and future exists within both those mental images. Thus, the vague idea communicated in point #4 is at least very similar in our minds. I could perhaps have phrased it better but I think you have picked up on what I meant.

For the sake of clarity, let me rephrase #4 as

***4. Fourth, at all times, from the ancient past to the far flung future, any rational person's idea of the universe will be based on things they think exist.

Fundamentally here I am speaking of all ideas which have ever been held or ever will be held as true by anybody. All such ideas are based on "things" which may or may not exist.

I want to think about these "things" without making any commitment at all as to what they are.

Have fun -- Dick

• Okay, again - harvey1 - September 11, 2002 - 20:30 UTC