: : RD: Let's say it over and over again. Space is what's going at the speed of light at the event horizon in our frame far away from the black hole. In the local frame of the event horizon, it is the horizon itself that is traveling at the speed of light in a direction away from the center singularity of the black hole. Therefore it's almost impossible not to fall into a black hole if you are anywhere near it.

: Ok.....true, that doesn't sound hard to agree with. That sounds right to me, except that all those initial reasons I gave for not being able to fall into the horizon still hold true. What about the blue shift, and the life of the universe? The lorentz contractions and your feet? : I still don't think it's possible to touch that boundary. If the horizon moves at the speed of light in the local frame, then wouldn't the black hole appear to expand at the speed of light in that frame?

RD: YES- It does apprear to expand in that frame.