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 Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...The Space and Astronomy Agora Re: Travelling Into The Future Is OK . Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response ToPosted by daViper on July 28, 1999 21:37:39 UTC

: : : ::::::::::::: : : I would really like to hear you elaborate on why you think "time travel is not fiction, only the technology is holding us back."

: : The first thing you have to prove to me is that the future or the past are actually tangible "somethings" you can travel to. Then we'll tackle the position problems since any travel to "somewhen" else also has to involve travel to "somewhere" else. (We are obviously moving thru space as we speak.) How you intend to calculate "where" those specific places in a target past/future are should prove really interesting.

::::::::::::: I'll admit it was a loaded statement, but I wanted to draw you out on this a little further. Please forgive, and lets examine. ----------------- : Time travel into the future happens to almost everyone, everyday in infintesimal amounts, just by movement(the faster you move, the slower time ticks), or elevation (the stronger the gravitational feild, the slower the pace of time) these are directly from special and general relativity. :::::::::::: This is called Time Dilation and is really not time travel per, se, since we are still moving forward in a normal way in our usual timeline.

So, to make the time travel of science fiction science fact, we would need to be able to reach extremely high speeds, and travel for a long time. Say you travel in a spaceship (already have them) near the speed of light (can't do this yet) for a couple years. when you return to Earth, five, ten, a hundred, or a thousand years could have passed (depending on your speed). Thus you have travelled into the future. This will happen and has been proven, the only problem is the technology of achieving these enormous speeds. ::::::::::::: This is the classic Twins paradox. Not really a paradox at all since again, each is moving forward in a normal way in the same single timeline. The travellers clocks just run slower, including his own body which is a biological clock.

: These ideas are pretty simple and have been around for a long time. It is Travelling into the past that people don't like the implications of (kill your father so you are never born). ::::::::::: This is the classic Grandfather paradox and is indeed a real paradox. As such, since the universe does not contain paradoxes, it rules out time travel of this type by the very nature of the paradox itself.

: Up to this point I believe I have a pretty good understanding of what I am talking about, as it is relatively :) easy stuff. If you are a physicist though, feel free to help me out as I am only a student and just beginning to learn about our fascinating universe.

: Travelling back in time:

: In the book I mentioned before, Igor Novikov explains a possible "Time Machine" for travelling back in time, It's really cool. But I'm not going to explain it for fear of 'false translation' (AKA, I don't know exactly what I'm talking about).

: If you are interested, It is the last chapter in the book "The River Of Time", but you should have some idea about General Relativity as it deals with time in gravitational fields as I mentioned earlier.

: : Re: The "somewhere, somethings and somewhen" ::::::::::::::::: Ok, here we go. Assume you are to travel back in time, say 100 years. We have to also then assume you will not be in your present location since your present location is not where it was 100 years ago. So just where are you going to get your time machine to deposit or materialize you? The Earth has made 100 rotations around the Sun. The Sun has continued on its orbit of the Galctic core. The local cluster has moved in its path within the Virgo supercluster, which is itself expanding along with the rest of the universe. You cannot calculate where the Earth was 100 years ago due to the 3 body problem. (Too many vectors, no point of reference.) Chances are, your time machine is going to materialize you into outer space somewhere with about ten seconds to wish you had never tried this trick.

The same problem exists for any travel to the future.

: I don't really understand what you mean by this. :::::::::: How we humans ever came to the conclusion that the past or the future represent something tangible as a possible destination is beyond me. How can time ever be anything but man's measurement of the interval between cause and effect? The Universe's normal procession perpetuated by the biggest cause of all, the big bang, and it's effect, which we continue to experience on a go-forward basis as it unfolds. But only EVER as it unfolds. Not something we can reverse, or force ourselves further forward into. Quantum Theory hypothesizes that "wave collapse" explains apparent reversals of this, but it does not reconcile with relativity. String theory tries to reconcile it but that's even more hypothetical.

In short, how can it ever be anything but "right now"? The past no longer exists to travel to. The future doesn't exist yet to travel to. How can anyone be convinced into thinking otherwise?

Peace