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 Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...The Space and Astronomy Agora Re: Bending Space Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response ToPosted by isscus/">isscus on September 12, 1998 03:34:43 UTC

: : : : What I failed to explain in my previous message, "Seeing the Past!", was that : : : : a worm hole works a bit like the warp drive : : : : in the series Star Trek. This system cannot make you travel faster than the speed : : : : of light, but can shorten the distance between the two points of a journey! : : : : My understanding is that enourmous amounts of energy is required to : : : : bend or warp space. For example imagine a ball (o) on a flat 2D surface (-) : : : : at point A. Let's say that it will take t=10 seconds to travel to point B. : : : : This is shown in figure 1. If an unthinkable amount of energy is now : : : : expended (the amount of energy our Sun has used up through its life time!), : : : : the surface warps into an omega shape, as shown in figure 2 where depending : : : : upon the amount of energy, the neck of the omega may even become in contact. : : : : If the ball travels from A to B along the warped surface, : : : : then it will take t=10s even though the surface is severely distorted. : : : : If however, it decides to punch through the energy field, ie. travel : : : : through the contact point of the omega, then it would have travelled : : : : from A to B in almost t=0s!!! : : : :

: : : : A B : : : : o o : : : : --------- : : : : Fig.1 Ball travels from point A to : : : : point B in t=10s on surface (-). : : : : : : : : /- : : : : | | : : : : A / B : : : : o | | o : : : : _/ _

: : : : Fig.2 The surface is warped to give an omega : : : : shape and the ball can travel through the narrow : : : : neck part in much LESS than t=10s. : : : : The question is, can this scale of energy be created by : : : : colliding a particle in a future particle accelerator. : : : : At the point of collision, where the energy is released, : : : : and the space around it is curved. If another particle is : : : : injected into this energy field, where will this particle : : : : go? : : : : Fred. : : : : : : Hi Fred, I think the notion is a neat one, but there are a few holes in it (small pun :)), : : : what I mean is that you are assuming space to have substance, which it does not, and : : : you cannot warp or bend nothing. : : : Empty space is just that, and the only things we have to work with are those things : : : which reside within this vast (uncurved) space which is in my opinion : : : infinite in direction in all directions. : : : The reason I say "in direction" is because it is not infinite in area, this is due to matter residing/existing : : : and for lack of a better word, displacing as much volume as there is matter, and matter for all practical purposes is : : : infinite as well, although if such a thing were possible, we would : : : find that there is a definte amount of it in all its variances.

: : : Although this infinite empty space has no real affect on matter, it still is : : : necissary for matter to reside in, but of course no other existnce : : : is possible than that of something within the space of nothing. : : : Billy :)

: : Remember, guys, that the "true" definition of gravitation is the warping of space-time. As a bit of history, it was once believed that gravity was some mythical "instantaneous" force acting on all objects at once. However, in reality ANY object with mass greater than zero warps space and thus, creates gravitiational pulls (Think of it kind of like space being a flat sheet. If you were to drop a rock on it, the sheet would dip downward toward the rock. If you were to roll a ball close to the rock, simple geometry will tell you that the ball will have a tendency to roll inward toward the other rock (imagine walking on the inside of a funnel)). This is the essence of gravity and proves that all objects to a certain degree, bend space. : : I still do not comprehend the concept of this explaintion of the effects : called gravity, the problem I see, and I am probably missing a key factor, : is that the trick with the rock, paper and ball do not work in space, only : within the influence of a large mass such as earth. : What am I missing, other than my mind in general? : Billy :)

What everyone is missing is that it isnt how much energy must be used to punch through the gravitation wave, but the way to manipulate the the field to allow a stable hole in the field itself. To accomplish this we must first be able to create a stable circular electromagneto field. Then modulate a resonance opposite the surrounding electro field coming from the "wash" of the first field. Now that that is accomplished, the next logical step would to create a inverse resonace in the first field localized to a certain area. Thus warping the "space" in that certain area.