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 Be the first pioneers to continue the Astronomy Discussions at our new Astronomy meeting place...The Space and Astronomy Agora Harvey, Why So Many Words Just To Say "nature Obeys Math"? Forum List | Follow Ups | Post Message | Back to Thread Topics | In Response ToPosted by Alexander on September 14, 2001 23:47:11 UTC

Whatever phenomenon you take, it proceeds in accordance to math and mathematically follows from previous mathematical conditions (we call initial conditions). And rules (=natural laws) are mathematical consequence of a few fundamental mathematical symmetries.

Where do you see "human concept" here? Lets take an example of electron "creating" a photon. Sure you believe that a photon is an object which exist out there in physical world "by itself" and we, humans just "describe" it mathematically, and all the math does - it describes by numbers what "already exists" out there.

Not true. The existense of a photon is just mathematical consequence of existense of electron (electric charge, actually). Electrons jump in atoms from one state to another but because they are orbiting nucleus they temporaly have their electric field oscillating - and we call this oscillating electric field "a photon". And all properties of a photon: color (=energy), wavelength (distance an electric field propagates in one oscillation of electron), photon's coherence length (=longitudinal size of a photon =total length of electric field wave bunch, till electron settles on another energy level)-they all mathematically follow from properties of oscillating electron. Where is "human construct" here - it is purely mathematical process of a "birth" of an oscillating electric field which we happen to label "a photon"? Only in calling this process "birth of a photon".

This mathematical process existed well before humans ever came to existence (and some started to claim that they "invented" math). You can see photons from galaxies billions light-years away.

And all known processes in universe are similar mathematical (=logical) processes we happen to call "objects" (photons, electrons, etc), "interactions", "laws of nature", etc.

Nothing to do with humans/aliens, or with human perceptions, feelings, philosophies, etc. Not to say about mythical gods or some other "creatures" we try to put behind mathematical phenomena.

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